Define "hallowed ground".

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flitzerbiest
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Define "hallowed ground".

Post #1

Post by flitzerbiest »

It has been asserted that the WTC site is "hallowed ground".

Please define hallowed ground?

What is appropriate or inappropriate use of hallowed ground?

Would it be permissible to build a Christian chapel near ground zero? Why or why not?

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Kuan
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Post #2

Post by Kuan »

Hallowed:
  • 1. Sanctified; consecrated: a hallowed cemetery.
  • 2. Highly venerated; sacrosanct: our hallowed war heroes.
Venerate: To regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference.

Using this two terms you can define hallowed land. Its usualy a place of tragedy or great victory in war.

I.e. Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Ground Zero.
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Post #3

Post by flitzerbiest »

mormon boy51 wrote:Hallowed:
  • 1. Sanctified; consecrated: a hallowed cemetery.
  • 2. Highly venerated; sacrosanct: our hallowed war heroes.
Venerate: To regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference.

Using this two terms you can define hallowed land. Its usualy a place of tragedy or great victory in war.

I.e. Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Ground Zero.
Thank you. I believe that we can agree that we are working with the second definition of those you supplied. I welcome your commentary on the latter question, i.e. what is to become of a former battlefield, killing field, etc.

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Post #4

Post by Kuan »

Battlefields are only considered hallow grounds when it has historical and emotional impact. Ill continue when I get to my computer.
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Post #5

Post by flitzerbiest »

mormon boy51 wrote:Battlefields are only considered hallow grounds when it has historical and emotional impact.
Eye of the beholder, then. And on the basis of this subjectivity, you would propose that we do what, exactly?

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Post #6

Post by Kuan »

flitzerbiest wrote:
mormon boy51 wrote:Battlefields are only considered hallow grounds when it has historical and emotional impact.
Eye of the beholder, then. And on the basis of this subjectivity, you would propose that we do what, exactly?
Not quite eye of the beholder. It is subjective in a way. Im not proposing that we do something. Some areas where major historical events have happened hold a different meaning to each one of us. It has become a major issue if you look at Jerusalem and the fight between Christians, Jews, and Muslims over their holy land. Every one has their own emotional attachment to different places. Most "hallowed grounds" are historical and contain emotional value to tons of people. The examples I have given can prove this.

Gettysburg: The Battle of Gettysburg, fought July 1–3, 1863, in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, was the battle with the largest number of casualties in the American Civil War and is often described as the war's turning point.
Source

Pearl Harbor: The attack on Pearl Harbor (called the Hawaii Operation or Operation Z by the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, and the Battle of Pearl Harbor by some Americans) was a surprise military strike conducted by the Imperial Japanese Navy against the United States naval base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii on the morning of December 7, 1941. The next day the United States declared war on Japan resulting in their entry into World War II.
Source

9/11 (WTC, or "Ground Zero"): The September 11 attacks (often referred to as September 11th or 9/11) were a series of coordinated suicide attacks by al-Qaeda upon the United States on September 11, 2001. On that morning, 19 al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial passenger jet airliners. The hijackers intentionally crashed two of the airliners into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, killing everyone on board and many others working in the buildings. Both buildings collapsed within two hours, destroying nearby buildings and damaging others. The hijackers crashed a third airliner into the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, just outside Washington, D.C. The fourth plane crashed into a field near Shanksville in rural Pennsylvania after some of its passengers and flight crew attempted to retake control of the plane, which the hijackers had redirected toward Washington, D.C. There were no survivors from any of the flights.
Source

Those are the historical points that make it "hallowed ground." Emotions that come with this are from friends and families who lost loved ones through the war or attacks. A large amount of people can trace their geneology to an ancestor in a major confict. Nationalism also contributes to these to as we see a empathic tie between (for example) Americans and those who have suffered emotional tragedy from fighting for the country.

I hope im being clear on this, so let me know what you think so far.
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Post #7

Post by flitzerbiest »

mormon boy51 wrote:
flitzerbiest wrote:
mormon boy51 wrote:Battlefields are only considered hallow grounds when it has historical and emotional impact.
Eye of the beholder, then. And on the basis of this subjectivity, you would propose that we do what, exactly?
Not quite eye of the beholder. It is subjective in a way. Im not proposing that we do something. Some areas where major historical events have happened hold a different meaning to each one of us. It has become a major issue if you look at Jerusalem and the fight between Christians, Jews, and Muslims over their holy land. Every one has their own emotional attachment to different places. Most "hallowed grounds" are historical and contain emotional value to tons of people. The examples I have given can prove this.

Gettysburg: The Battle of Gettysburg, fought July 1–3, 1863, in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, was the battle with the largest number of casualties in the American Civil War and is often described as the war's turning point.
Source

Pearl Harbor: The attack on Pearl Harbor (called the Hawaii Operation or Operation Z by the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, and the Battle of Pearl Harbor by some Americans) was a surprise military strike conducted by the Imperial Japanese Navy against the United States naval base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii on the morning of December 7, 1941. The next day the United States declared war on Japan resulting in their entry into World War II.
Source

9/11 (WTC, or "Ground Zero"): The September 11 attacks (often referred to as September 11th or 9/11) were a series of coordinated suicide attacks by al-Qaeda upon the United States on September 11, 2001. On that morning, 19 al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial passenger jet airliners. The hijackers intentionally crashed two of the airliners into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, killing everyone on board and many others working in the buildings. Both buildings collapsed within two hours, destroying nearby buildings and damaging others. The hijackers crashed a third airliner into the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, just outside Washington, D.C. The fourth plane crashed into a field near Shanksville in rural Pennsylvania after some of its passengers and flight crew attempted to retake control of the plane, which the hijackers had redirected toward Washington, D.C. There were no survivors from any of the flights.
Source

Those are the historical points that make it "hallowed ground." Emotions that come with this are from friends and families who lost loved ones through the war or attacks. A large amount of people can trace their geneology to an ancestor in a major confict. Nationalism also contributes to these to as we see a empathic tie between (for example) Americans and those who have suffered emotional tragedy from fighting for the country.

I hope im being clear on this, so let me know what you think so far.
Clear enough, although I have already stated that I find it too subjective to be meaningful, and that I nevertheless agree with your practical conclusion. I suppose my argument to be with those who would use the term "hallowed ground" as emotional rhetoric to support anti-Islamic bigotry, something which you are clearly not doing.

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Post #8

Post by Kuan »

flitzerbiest wrote:
mormon boy51 wrote:
flitzerbiest wrote:
mormon boy51 wrote:Battlefields are only considered hallow grounds when it has historical and emotional impact.
Eye of the beholder, then. And on the basis of this subjectivity, you would propose that we do what, exactly?
Not quite eye of the beholder. It is subjective in a way. Im not proposing that we do something. Some areas where major historical events have happened hold a different meaning to each one of us. It has become a major issue if you look at Jerusalem and the fight between Christians, Jews, and Muslims over their holy land. Every one has their own emotional attachment to different places. Most "hallowed grounds" are historical and contain emotional value to tons of people. The examples I have given can prove this.

Gettysburg: The Battle of Gettysburg, fought July 1–3, 1863, in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, was the battle with the largest number of casualties in the American Civil War and is often described as the war's turning point.
Source

Pearl Harbor: The attack on Pearl Harbor (called the Hawaii Operation or Operation Z by the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, and the Battle of Pearl Harbor by some Americans) was a surprise military strike conducted by the Imperial Japanese Navy against the United States naval base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii on the morning of December 7, 1941. The next day the United States declared war on Japan resulting in their entry into World War II.
Source

9/11 (WTC, or "Ground Zero"): The September 11 attacks (often referred to as September 11th or 9/11) were a series of coordinated suicide attacks by al-Qaeda upon the United States on September 11, 2001. On that morning, 19 al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial passenger jet airliners. The hijackers intentionally crashed two of the airliners into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, killing everyone on board and many others working in the buildings. Both buildings collapsed within two hours, destroying nearby buildings and damaging others. The hijackers crashed a third airliner into the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, just outside Washington, D.C. The fourth plane crashed into a field near Shanksville in rural Pennsylvania after some of its passengers and flight crew attempted to retake control of the plane, which the hijackers had redirected toward Washington, D.C. There were no survivors from any of the flights.
Source

Those are the historical points that make it "hallowed ground." Emotions that come with this are from friends and families who lost loved ones through the war or attacks. A large amount of people can trace their geneology to an ancestor in a major confict. Nationalism also contributes to these to as we see a empathic tie between (for example) Americans and those who have suffered emotional tragedy from fighting for the country.

I hope im being clear on this, so let me know what you think so far.
Clear enough, although I have already stated that I find it too subjective to be meaningful, and that I nevertheless agree with your practical conclusion. I suppose my argument to be with those who would use the term "hallowed ground" as emotional rhetoric to support anti-Islamic bigotry, something which you are clearly not doing.
I am glad that I was clear in my argument.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire

Kung may ayaw, may dahilan. Kung may gusto, may paraan.

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