Jews as a Race?

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JoeyKnothead
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Jews as a Race?

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cnorman18

Re: Jews as a Race?

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Re: Jews as a Race?

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Post by Goat »

JoeyKnothead wrote:I know I'm gonna sound racist here, that is most certainly NOT my intent, but dangitall I can't put this together in a better fashion...

In another thread I see that Jewish folks don't consider themselves a race. As Judaism is a theology / philosophy, it may include folks as diverse as humanity itself, on that there can be no argument.

What I wonder though, is the deal where a person born to a Jewish mother is considered Jewish. Doesn't this imply a race?
The web site that EOE quote mined from discussed that exactly. If you read
http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

you will see

The Jewish People are a Family

It is clear from the discussion above that there is a certain amount of truth in the claims that it is a religion, a race, or an ethnic group, none of these descriptions is entirely adequate to describe what connects Jews to other Jews. And yet, almost all Jews feel a sense of connectedness to each other that many find hard to explain, define, or even understand. Traditionally, this interconnectedness was understood as "nationhood" or "peoplehood," but those terms have become so distorted over time that they are no longer accurate.

Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz has suggested a better analogy for the Jewish people: We are a family. See the third essay in his recent book, We Jews: Who Are We and What Should We Do. But though this is a new book, it is certainly not a new concept: throughout the Bible and Jewish literature, the Jewish people are referred to as "the Children of Israel," a reference to the fact that we are all the physical or spiritual descendants of the Patriarch Jacob, who was later called Israel. In other words, we are part of his extended family.

Like a family, we don't always agree with each other. We often argue and criticize each other. We hold each other to the very highest standards, knowing that the shortcomings of any member of the family will be held against all of us. But when someone outside of the family unfairly criticizes a family member or the family as a whole, we are quick to join together in opposition to that unfair criticism.

When members of our "family" suffer or are persecuted, we all feel their pain. For example, in the 1980s, when Africa was suffering from droughts and famines, many Jews around the world learned for the first time about the Beta Israel, the Jews of Ethiopia. Their religion, race and culture are quite different from ours, and we had not even known that they existed before the famine. And yet, our hearts went out to them as our fellow Jews during this period of famine, like distant cousins we had never met, and Jews from around the world helped them to emigrate to Israel.

When a member of our "family" does something illegal, immoral or shameful, we all feel the shame, and we all feel that it reflects on us. As Jews, many of us were embarrassed by the scandals of Monica Lewinsky, Jack Abramoff and Bernie Madoff, because they are Jews and their actions reflect on us all, even though we disapprove. The Madoff scandal was all the more embarassing, because so many of his victims were Jews and Jewish charities: a Jew robbing from our own "family"! We were shocked when Israeli Prime Minister Yitzchak Rabin was killed by a Jew, unable to believe that one Jew would ever kill another member of the "family."

And when a member of our "family" accomplishes something significant, we all feel proud. A perfect example of Jews (even completely secular ones) delighting in the accomplishments of our fellow Jews is the perennial popularity of Adam Sandler's Chanukkah songs, listing famous people who are Jewish. We all take pride in scientists like Albert Einstein or political leaders like Joe Lieberman (we don't all agree with his politics or his religious views, but we were all proud to see him on a national ticket). And is there a Jew who doesn't know (or at least feel pride upon learning) that Sandy Koufax declined to pitch in a World Series game that fell on Yom Kippur?

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Post #4

Post by Jrosemary »

No worries, Joey--there's nothing wrong with an honest question, and nothing offensive about the way you phrased it. O:)

I think Goat and CNorman answered the question well; we Jews are a people/family; not a race. There are white Jews, black Jews, Asian Jews--you name it. And some of us are born into this people, and some of us get adopted into it.

What gets tricky is that if you're born to a Jewish mother--whether she was a born Jew or a convert--it's hard to opt out of being Jewish. You're considered Jewish per Jewish law, and the world at large will tend to see you as a Jew too--whether you're on board or not.

Bobby Fischer, the famous chess player, is a good example of this. He was born to a Jewish mother, but he raged against Judaism (pretty much to the point of antisemitism) and loudly declared that he wasn't a Jew. Yet Wikipedia and just about everyone else still lists him as a great Jewish chess master. :roll:

This question has come up on the Jewish side of my family--if you don't want to be Jewish, why should you be stuck with that identity? The religious answer, I suppose, is that--mythically speaking--you stood at Sinai and accepted the mitzvot. (Per the Jewish tradition, every Jew that ever was or ever will be stood at Sinai. There's some midrashic tales that suggest the Jewish people as a whole weren't keen on accepting the mitzvot--the commandments, that is--but that's another story.) The secular answer is that Judaism is such a strong cultural identity that it's near impossible to shake off.

Those answers aside, it's still a tough and fair question. :-k

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Post #5

Post by JoeyKnothead »

I 'preciate y'all schooling me here. I've been gnawing on these posts a good bit, and I think I see why it is at least a bit rude, if not outright "redneck rude" to consider Jews as a race.

I think in this day and age it would be much preferred to just go on and consider all folks as just the human race.

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Post #6

Post by nogods »

My nephew is married a Jew and indeed this topic has come up. I have found it best to allow the Jews to believe they are somehow their own race. In reality they are nothing more than Canaanites. They are of the same bloodline as Arabs. However, since the Jews have been dispersed throughout Europe and intermarried with local populations, their "racial purity" (I apologize for that term, I hate it too.) is far less than say the Palestinians. I remember when Hispanics, Jews, Arabs, and regular European types were all considered the same race. Now we all have our own separate box.

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Re: Jews as a Race?

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Re: Jews as a Race?

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Post by McCulloch »

RightKnowledge999 wrote: In Order To Answer Your Question Their A Few Question Must Be Answer First In Order To Get To The Facts Ok . Thats If You Really What The Facts ? Ok

( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?
For many words, the current meaning and where it came from are two different things. Take French for example. Originally this meant the Germanic tribe known as the Franks. Now, French refers to a people who speak a Romance language.
RightKnowledge999 wrote: I Mean These People ;
Adam ~ Genesis 2 ; 19 .
Eve ~ Genesis 3 ; 20 ,
Cain ~ Son Of Adam And Eve ~ Genesis 4 ; 1
Abel ~ Son Of Adam And Eve ~ Genesis 4 ; 2
Enoch ~ Son Of Jared ~ Genesis 4 ; 17
Lamech ~ Son Of Methuselah Genesis 4 ; 18
Seth ~ Son Of Adam And Eve ~ Genesis 4 ; 25
Enos ~ Son Of Seth ~ Genesis 4 ; 26
Cainan ~ Son Of Enos ~ Genesis 5 ; 9
Mahalaleel ~ Son Of Cainan ~ Genesis 5 ; 12
Jared ~ Son Of Mahaleel ~ Genesis 5 ; 15
Methuselah ~ Son Of Enoch ~ Genesis 5 ; 21
Noah ~ Son Of Lamech ~ Genesis 5 ; 29
Ham ~ Son Of Noah ~ Genesis 5 ; 32
Shem ~ Son Of Noah ~ Genesis 5 ; 32
Japheth ~ Son Of Noah ~ Genesis 5 ; 32
Elam ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Asshur ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Arphaxad ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Lud ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Aram ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Salah ~ Son Of Arphaxad ~ Genesis 10 ; 13
Eber ~ Son Of Salah ~ Genesis 10 ; 21
Peleg ~ Son Of Eber ~ Genesis 11 ; 16
Reu ~ Son Of Peleg ~ Genesis 11 ; 18
Serug ~ Son Of Reu ~ Genesis 11 ; 20
Nahow ~ Son Of Serug ~ Genesis 11 ; 22
Terah ~ Son Of Nahor ~ Genesis 11 ; 24

What was The Religion Of These People ? All Of These People Were Before Abraham
These people are all part of the Jewish mythology, inherited by the other Abrahamic religions, Christianity, Islam and Bahá'í .
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Re: Jews as a Race?

Post #9

Post by RightKnowledge999 »

McCulloch wrote:
RightKnowledge999 wrote: In Order To Answer Your Question Their A Few Question Must Be Answer First In Order To Get To The Facts Ok . Thats If You Really What The Facts ? Ok

( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?
For many words, the current meaning and where it came from are two different things. Take French for example. Originally this meant the Germanic tribe known as the Franks. Now, French refers to a people who speak a Romance language.
RightKnowledge999 wrote: I Mean These People ;
Adam ~ Genesis 2 ; 19 .
Eve ~ Genesis 3 ; 20 ,
Cain ~ Son Of Adam And Eve ~ Genesis 4 ; 1
Abel ~ Son Of Adam And Eve ~ Genesis 4 ; 2
Enoch ~ Son Of Jared ~ Genesis 4 ; 17
Lamech ~ Son Of Methuselah Genesis 4 ; 18
Seth ~ Son Of Adam And Eve ~ Genesis 4 ; 25
Enos ~ Son Of Seth ~ Genesis 4 ; 26
Cainan ~ Son Of Enos ~ Genesis 5 ; 9
Mahalaleel ~ Son Of Cainan ~ Genesis 5 ; 12
Jared ~ Son Of Mahaleel ~ Genesis 5 ; 15
Methuselah ~ Son Of Enoch ~ Genesis 5 ; 21
Noah ~ Son Of Lamech ~ Genesis 5 ; 29
Ham ~ Son Of Noah ~ Genesis 5 ; 32
Shem ~ Son Of Noah ~ Genesis 5 ; 32
Japheth ~ Son Of Noah ~ Genesis 5 ; 32
Elam ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Asshur ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Arphaxad ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Lud ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Aram ~ Son Of Shem ~ Genesis 10 ; 22
Salah ~ Son Of Arphaxad ~ Genesis 10 ; 13
Eber ~ Son Of Salah ~ Genesis 10 ; 21
Peleg ~ Son Of Eber ~ Genesis 11 ; 16
Reu ~ Son Of Peleg ~ Genesis 11 ; 18
Serug ~ Son Of Reu ~ Genesis 11 ; 20
Nahow ~ Son Of Serug ~ Genesis 11 ; 22
Terah ~ Son Of Nahor ~ Genesis 11 ; 24

What was The Religion Of These People ? All Of These People Were Before Abraham
These people are all part of the Jewish mythology, inherited by the other Abrahamic religions, Christianity, Islam and Bahá'í .


IF I Can Make A Suggestion Let Deal With The The Language In Which The Scription Were Written In Shall We It Only Fair Right . This Way There Won't Be Any Play On Words Ok . So The First Question Is . ( 1 ) What Is The Meaning Of The Word Jew And Where It Come From ?

I'll A Wait For Your Answer , Or Maybe Some One/ Else Has The Answer Ok . It Is Better For Other To Give Their Point Of View .Right

cnorman18

Re: Jews as a Race?

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