Do Obama And His Liberal Friends Despise America?

[WinePusher]

I'd say yes, Liberals and the current president do despise America and what she stands for. Here are the factors that lead me to this conclusion.

1) Statements and Quotations From The President and Cabinet Officials. The Attorney General called this a "nation of cowards." The President went to Europe and Cairo where he called America an "arrogant" nation and apologized for our wrongdoings. The president likes associating with America Haters such as Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Van Jones.

2) The president and his liberal friends clearly have contempt for the constitution. They adamently oppose the second amendment, they have increased the size of the federal government instead of limiting it; they scorn state's rights and the 10th amendment. The promote first amendment violating laws such as the fairness doctrine.

3) The president and his attorney general have a very lenient and sympathetic stance towards the vicious killers who attacked us on 9/11. Some administration officials oppose water boarding under an circumstance (P.J Crowley), even if american lives are at risk. They want to give these terrorists civilian trials, and jeopardize the lives of the Judge, the Jurors, and the Prosecutor forever. The liberal ACLU and Justice Department Attornies seem more than glad to defend these terrorists, and the "Adams Project", affiliated with the ACLU, takes pictures of CIA interrogators and shows them to GITMO detainees.

4) The left wing has always shown distaste for our military, our police officers, and our border patrol. It was the Liberal Anti War traitors in the 60's who alienated and marganalized returning Vietnam War Vets, it is the treacherous code pink who protest our brave troops, it was the liberal activist Elena Herrada who called compared our Border Patrol to the KKK.

5) The cultural left wing hollywood elites have been shown to have contempt for America's traditional values. They promote single motherhood with glee, they promote teenager pregnancies with glee, and they promote wedlock marriages with glee. I challenge anyone to give me a movie that promotes the nuclear family, and self reliance, and a healthy heterosexual marriage. The liberal Actors such as Oliver Stone speak fondly of Stalin and Castro.

Questions For Debate:

Do Obama and the left wing despise America?
Is my list of factors justified, or am I just being a "fear monger"?

[Goat]

I'd say yes, Liberals and the current president do despise America and what she stands for. Here are the factors that lead me to this conclusion.

1) Statements and Quotations From The President and Cabinet Officials. The Attorney General called this a "nation of cowards." The President went to Europe and Cairo where he called America an "arrogant" nation and apologized for our wrongdoings. The president likes associating with America Haters such as Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Van Jones.

2) The president and his liberal friends clearly have contempt for the constitution. They adamently oppose the second amendment, they have increased the size of the federal government instead of limiting it; they scorn state's rights and the 10th amendment. The promote first amendment violating laws such as the fairness doctrine.

3) The president and his attorney general have a very lenient and sympathetic stance towards the vicious killers who attacked us on 9/11. Some administration officials oppose water boarding under an circumstance (P.J Crowley), even if american lives are at risk. They want to give these terrorists civilian trials, and jeopardize the lives of the Judge, the Jurors, and the Prosecutor forever. The liberal ACLU and Justice Department Attornies seem more than glad to defend these terrorists, and the "Adams Project", affiliated with the ACLU, takes pictures of CIA interrogators and shows them to GITMO detainees.

4) The left wing has always shown distaste for our military, our police officers, and our border patrol. It was the Liberal Anti War traitors in the 60's who alienated and marganalized returning Vietnam War Vets, it is the treacherous code pink who protest our brave troops, it was the liberal activist Elena Herrada who called compared our Border Patrol to the KKK.

5) The cultural left wing hollywood elites have been shown to have contempt for America's traditional values. They promote single motherhood with glee, they promote teenager pregnancies with glee, and they promote wedlock marriages with glee. I challenge anyone to give me a movie that promotes the nuclear family, and self reliance, and a healthy heterosexual marriage. The liberal Actors such as Oliver Stone speak fondly of Stalin and Castro.

Questions For Debate:

Do Obama and the left wing despise America?
Is my list of factors justified, or am I just being a "fear monger"?

You are being a fear monger, because you are misrepresenting facts, and using emotionally charged but symenticallyi meaningless adjectives to flame bait.

[WinePusher]

I'd say yes, Liberals and the current president do despise America and what she stands for. Here are the factors that lead me to this conclusion.

1) Statements and Quotations From The President and Cabinet Officials. The Attorney General called this a "nation of cowards." The President went to Europe and Cairo where he called America an "arrogant" nation and apologized for our wrongdoings. The president likes associating with America Haters such as Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Van Jones.

2) The president and his liberal friends clearly have contempt for the constitution. They adamently oppose the second amendment, they have increased the size of the federal government instead of limiting it; they scorn state's rights and the 10th amendment. The promote first amendment violating laws such as the fairness doctrine.

3) The president and his attorney general have a very lenient and sympathetic stance towards the vicious killers who attacked us on 9/11. Some administration officials oppose water boarding under an circumstance (P.J Crowley), even if american lives are at risk. They want to give these terrorists civilian trials, and jeopardize the lives of the Judge, the Jurors, and the Prosecutor forever. The liberal ACLU and Justice Department Attornies seem more than glad to defend these terrorists, and the "Adams Project", affiliated with the ACLU, takes pictures of CIA interrogators and shows them to GITMO detainees.

4) The left wing has always shown distaste for our military, our police officers, and our border patrol. It was the Liberal Anti War traitors in the 60's who alienated and marganalized returning Vietnam War Vets, it is the treacherous code pink who protest our brave troops, it was the liberal activist Elena Herrada who called compared our Border Patrol to the KKK.

5) The cultural left wing hollywood elites have been shown to have contempt for America's traditional values. They promote single motherhood with glee, they promote teenager pregnancies with glee, and they promote wedlock marriages with glee. I challenge anyone to give me a movie that promotes the nuclear family, and self reliance, and a healthy heterosexual marriage. The liberal Actors such as Oliver Stone speak fondly of Stalin and Castro.

Questions For Debate:

Do Obama and the left wing despise America?
Is my list of factors justified, or am I just being a "fear monger"?

You are being a fear monger, because you are misrepresenting facts, and using emotionally charged but symenticallyi meaningless adjectives to flame bait.

Its very easy to just say someone is being a fear monger without showing what they have said to be false, it would be productive to point out what facts I am misrepresenting.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

1) Statements and Quotations From The President and Cabinet Officials. The Attorney General called this a "nation of cowards." The President went to Europe and Cairo where he called America an "arrogant" nation and apologized for our wrongdoings. The president likes associating with America Haters such as Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Van Jones.

For full context, please reference the following:

1- AG's speech or etc. declaring "nation of cowards".
2- Obama's speec or etc. declaring arrogance.

On the issue of America acting arrogantly, I agree we have done so in the recent and not so recent past.

This is a matter of opinion, and verification will be as subjective as "Tastes great / Less filling".

2) The president and his liberal friends clearly have contempt for the constitution. They adamently oppose the second amendment, they have increased the size of the federal government instead of limiting it; they scorn state's rights and the 10th amendment. The promote first amendment violating laws such as the fairness doctrine.

That you disagree with interpretation of the Constitution is insufficient warrant to merit a claim of "contempt", IMO.

3) The president and his attorney general have a very lenient and sympathetic stance towards the vicious killers who attacked us on 9/11...

Your disagreement on how to conduct the war on terrorism is subjective opinion, and doesn't warrant the "America hater" label Rightist so love to bandy about.

IMO, the real "America haters" are those who refuse to understand their difference of opinion is just that.

Some administration officials oppose water boarding under an circumstance (P.J Crowley), even if american lives are at risk.

One of the reasons for this opposition is it gives more reason for the enemy to do it to our soldiers. That is not an "America hater" position in the least.

They want to give these terrorists civilian trials, and jeopardize the lives of the Judge, the Jurors, and the Prosecutor forever.

IMO, an "America hater" would do away with the rule of law.

The liberal ACLU and Justice Department Attornies seem more than glad to defend these terrorists, and the "Adams Project", affiliated with the ACLU, takes pictures of CIA interrogators and shows them to GITMO detainees.

We can't find out whose breaking the law if we don't know who they are. IMO no American is immune to the law, even if they disagree with it, as I do so much of it.

4) The left wing has always shown distaste for our military, our police officers, and our border patrol.

I object to this mischaracterization. Just because rulings or such don't go your way does not mean there is "distaste".

Your "distaste" for any opinion other than your own is quite evident in this rant of an OP.

I will leave the rest of your tirade alone.

I am ashamed to see you carry on like this.

-tag edit

[Wyvern]

I'd say yes, Liberals and the current president do despise America and what she stands for. Here are the factors that lead me to this conclusion.

It takes a much more patriotic person to admit the mistakes their country has made and still love their country than a person that ignores or disavows anything questionable their country has done.

1) Statements and Quotations From The President and Cabinet Officials. The Attorney General called this a "nation of cowards." The President went to Europe and Cairo where he called America an "arrogant" nation and apologized for our wrongdoings. The president likes associating with America Haters such as Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Van Jones.

2) The president and his liberal friends clearly have contempt for the constitution. They adamently oppose the second amendment, they have increased the size of the federal government instead of limiting it; they scorn state's rights and the 10th amendment. The promote first amendment violating laws such as the fairness doctrine.

I like this you say members of the administration hold the constitution in contempt but it is you that seem to hold the first amendment in contempt when you complain about what they say or whom they associate with. Why do you think it is wrong for our government to apologize for wrongdoings? Do you think the German and Japanese governments should never have apologized for its actions during WW2? Do you think the american government should never apologize for things like the trail of tears? How can you honestly call yourself patriotic if you can not even acknowledge the wrongdoings of your nation?

3) The president and his attorney general have a very lenient and sympathetic stance towards the vicious killers who attacked us on 9/11. Some administration officials oppose water boarding under an circumstance (P.J Crowley), even if american lives are at risk. They want to give these terrorists civilian trials, and jeopardize the lives of the Judge, the Jurors, and the Prosecutor forever. The liberal ACLU and Justice Department Attornies seem more than glad to defend these terrorists, and the "Adams Project", affiliated with the ACLU, takes pictures of CIA interrogators and shows them to GITMO detainees.

One way of judging a country is by how they treat their prisoners. The ACLU is not part of the government and lumping them both together as you have done is dishonest. It is never easy trying to set an example for the rest of the world and it's really hard to set that example if you advocate the torture of prisoners.

4) The left wing has always shown distaste for our military, our police officers, and our border patrol. It was the Liberal Anti War traitors in the 60's who alienated and marganalized returning Vietnam War Vets, it is the treacherous code pink who protest our brave troops, it was the liberal activist Elena Herrada who called compared our Border Patrol to the KKK.

Strange thing is it's those very same 60's liberals that turned into the 90's neocons its almost like they are desperately trying to attone for their past sins by going overboard the other way.

5) The cultural left wing hollywood elites have been shown to have contempt for America's traditional values. They promote single motherhood with glee, they promote teenager pregnancies with glee, and they promote wedlock marriages with glee. I challenge anyone to give me a movie that promotes the nuclear family, and self reliance, and a healthy heterosexual marriage. The liberal Actors such as Oliver Stone speak fondly of Stalin and Castro.

There are plenty of family movies produced by Hollywood but face it a movie where everyone is happy and nothing bad happens would be a boring movie people want to see conflict, action, sex and violence. If people didn't want to see such things then those kind of movies wouldn't be made because even though you say you are a fan of capitalism why is it that you are opposed to movie studios making money with movies that will be popular. Oliver Stone is a Hollywood kook on the left and to even it out Mel Gibson is a Hollywood kook on the right, it's been quite a while since Stone has done anything of note but the same can not be said of Gibson, does that mean Hollywood is turning right wing?

Questions For Debate:

Do Obama and the left wing despise America?
Is my list of factors justified, or am I just being a "fear monger"?

I'd say you are being a fear monger and worse seem to think you can be selective on the use of the constitution.

[Slopeshoulder]

Yet another rant from the fringe.

[WinePusher]

Your disagreement on how to conduct the war on terrorism is subjective opinion, and doesn't warrant the "America hater" label Rightist so love to bandy about.

IMO, the real "America haters" are those who refuse to understand their difference of opinion is just that.

I will try to refrain from using terms such as "America Hater." But what I was referring to was not the war on terrorism, rather the handling of national security. I think that a group such as the "Adams Project" that takes photos of CIA interrogators and shows them to their terrorist clients are indeed "America Haters" as they are jeophardizing their lives.

Some administration officials oppose water boarding under an circumstance (P.J Crowley), even if american lives are at risk.

One of the reasons for this opposition is it gives more reason for the enemy to do it to our soldiers. That is not an "America hater" position in the least.

I only referred to three specific people as "America Haters" Jeremiah Wright, Van Jones and Bill Ayers. I probably unfairly constituted Van Jones as an America Hater, but I stand by what I said about Wright and Ayers. A domestic terrorist that thinks it neccesary to blow up buldings in order to make a political point clearly hates this country, and a preacher who says things like "God Damn America" and calls America the "Great Satan" obviously hates this country. However I understand that it is provocative and inflamatory rhetoric and will stop using it.

They want to give these terrorists civilian trials, and jeopardize the lives of the Judge, the Jurors, and the Prosecutor forever.

IMO, an "America hater" would do away with the rule of law.

I would certainly do away with the rule of law if american lives were at risk.

The liberal ACLU and Justice Department Attornies seem more than glad to defend these terrorists, and the "Adams Project", affiliated with the ACLU, takes pictures of CIA interrogators and shows them to GITMO detainees.

We can't find out whose breaking the law if we don't know who they are. IMO no American is immune to the law, even if they disagree with it, as I do so much of it.

That does not justify taking pictures of interrogators and showing them to the GITMO inmates, it jeoparhdizes their lives. Personally, the CIA people who supposedly broke the law were protecting this great nation, I would not call that a crime.

4) The left wing has always shown distaste for our military, our police officers, and our border patrol.

I object to this mischaracterization. Just because rulings or such don't go your way does not mean there is "distaste".

Well, there were no rulings. I cited three specific examples: Vietnam War Veteran marginalization, Code Pink Protestors, and the liberal activist Elena Herrod who compared our Border Patrol to the KKK.

Your "distaste" for any opinion other than your own is quite evident in this rant of an OP.

I don't have distaste for other opinions, I can understand why you would think so as I did use some uncivil adjectives (which I will stop using), but I stand by my opinion that Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright are do not like America. Not because their opinions differ with mine, but because Bill Ayers blew up this country, and Jeremiah Wright spews anti american rhetoric.

I am ashamed to see you carry on like this.

I will stop with the use of uncivil labeling.

[WinePusher]

Yet another rant from the fringe.

I respect you and your opinons Slopeshoulder, but unless you can post something constructive or thoughtfully refute my points please refrain from posting comments that simply try to deminish my credibility.

[WinePusher]

It takes a much more patriotic person to admit the mistakes their country has made and still love their country than a person that ignores or disavows anything questionable their country has done.

I agree, BUT it seems that the only thing this president can do is keep on apologizing. I have yet heard a speech that promotes this countries values and traditions. First its Europe, then its siding with Mexico over the immigration law, then its talking to China about our human rights violations. I'm sorry, but this country has rarely violated human rights on the scale that any other nation in the world has.

I like this you say members of the administration hold the constitution in contempt but it is you that seem to hold the first amendment in contempt when you complain about what they say or whom they associate with.

Not at all, I believe even the Westboro Baptist Church has a great to spew their hatred as free speech is what makes this country great. The public servents of this country have a right to condemn it as a "nation of cowards," and I wouldn't prohibit them from doing so.

Why do you think it is wrong for our government to apologize for wrongdoings?

No. And we have. I believe Congress has issued several apologizes on the Japnese internment camps and slavery. I have a problem with it, when our president goes overseas and thinks it neccesary to not even apologize for us, but call us arrogant.

Do you think the american government should never apologize for things like the trail of tears? How can you honestly call yourself patriotic if you can not even acknowledge the wrongdoings of your nation?

First of all, we have thoroughly compensated the Native Americans. Secondly, I never said we shouldn't apologize, I said it is troubling for our president to constantly apologize for America rather than praise her. Has he done so? Certainly there is much more to be praised about America then there is to condemn her.

One way of judging a country is by how they treat their prisoners. The ACLU is not part of the government and lumping them both together as you have done is dishonest. It is never easy trying to set an example for the rest of the world and it's really hard to set that example if you advocate the torture of prisoners.

The ACLU is part of the liberal base that Obama affiliates himself with. And we treat our prisoners better than any other country. Why do you think Vander Sloot wanted to come to American prisons rather than stay in the Peruvian one. And, we do not whimsically torture prisoners, we have tortured prisoners when oulives are at risk, which I have no problem with. BTW: : we are not drowning them, or strapping electrodes to their chest; we're creating a sensational feeling of drowning.

4) The left wing has always shown distaste for our military, our police officers, and our border patrol. It was the Liberal Anti War traitors in the 60's who alienated and marganalized returning Vietnam War Vets, it is the treacherous code pink who protest our brave troops, it was the liberal activist Elena Herrada who called compared our Border Patrol to the KKK.

Strange thing is it's those very same 60's liberals that turned into the 90's neocons its almost like they are desperately trying to attone for their past sins by going overboard the other way.

I don't believe conservative revolution of the eighties marganalized our returning war veterans, or rioted in the streets, or blew up buldings.

There are plenty of family movies produced by Hollywood but face it a movie where everyone is happy and nothing bad happens would be a boring movie people want to see conflict, action, sex and violence.

True, but that isn't the point. I don't think MTV focusing glamourizing teenage pregnancy is neccearily a good thing, not do I think producing shows glamourizing single motherhood is a good thing.

If people didn't want to see such things then those kind of movies wouldn't be made because even though you say you are a fan of capitalism why is it that you are opposed to movie studios making money with movies that will be popular.

Yes, let the markey deal with them. But you still haven't answered my point. Do you think it is good to glamourize single motherhood and teen pregnancies?

I'd say you are being a fear monger and worse seem to think you can be selective on the use of the constitution.

I don't think my views on the constitution are selective. I'm very consistent on that, interpret the text as it was originally written down, do not subject it to activism or personal interpretation; do not call it a "living document" or use ratify it to permitt social change. Social change does not come about by way of the courts or the constitution, if you want gay marriage, if you want abortion then argue it in the legislature and make a law according to popular sovernighty. The constitution has always been meant to impede social change.

[DeBunkem]

[center]Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism[/center]
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3


Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

From Liberty Forum

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?