Sick of an untrue excuse

[0JesusFreak]

The statement of "Separation of Church" and State being in the constitution is entirely false and I can prove it.

All anyone needs to do is look up the U.S. Constitution on the web and use ctrl+F. search for any part of that and you won't find "Separation of Church and State" anywhere in it.

So my question is this: why and how do the politicians get away with this everytime?

(I'm actually surprised that I couldn't find a post about this.)

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

The statement of "Separation of Church" and State being in the constitution is entirely false and I can prove it.

All anyone needs to do is look up the U.S. Constitution on the web and use ctrl+F. search for any part of that and you won't find "Separation of Church and State" anywhere in it.

So my question is this: why and how do the politicians get away with this everytime?

I agree it is not explicitly stated as "separation of Church and State", but contend it is clearly implied in that whole "make no law establishing" deal.

As to "getting away with it", I notice "In God We Trust", and "Under God" on our money and in our pledge, and wonder how theists "get away with" this insertion of religion into government.

I would contend Christians trying to force their ancient, outmoded, and often discriminatory ideals onto others is a violation of not only separation of Church and State, but a violation of the free conscience of free men everywhere.

History is rife with the abuses of theocracy.

[McCulloch]

The Supreme Court, who's constitutional job it is to correctly interpret the meaning of the constitution, has consistently ruled that this is the correct meaning of the first amendment.

The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. Please review Engel v. Vitale and Lemon v. Kurtzman.

[0JesusFreak]

I would contend Christians trying to force their ancient, outmoded, and often discriminatory ideals onto others is a violation of not only separation of Church and State, but a violation of the free conscience of free men everywhere.

History is rife with the abuses of theocracy.

Then I say we Christians need to do something about this attitude of ours. Otherwise we just misrepresent our ideals and teachings worldwide, much less in the political system. But everyone and every group does deserve equal representation in the government. That is what the USA stands for after all.

[McCulloch]

But everyone and every group does deserve equal representation in the government. That is what the USA stands for after all.

As far as I can read, it is only every person who deserves equal representation in government. There is no constitutional standing for groups, other than your guaranteed freedom of association in groups.

The USA, through its exemplary constitution, stands for freedom and liberty, the protection of human rights, even against the tyranny of the majority.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 4:

I would contend Christians trying to force their ancient, outmoded, and often discriminatory ideals onto others is a violation of not only separation of Church and State, but a violation of the free conscience of free men everywhere.

History is rife with the abuses of theocracy.

Then I say we Christians need to do something about this attitude of ours. Otherwise we just misrepresent our ideals and teachings worldwide, much less in the political system. But everyone and every group does deserve equal representation in the government. That is what the USA stands for after all.

Unfortunately, too many Christians seem to think they're the only "group" deserving of such representation. Witness recent laws regarding homosexual marriage, recent cases of High School proms being cancelled, and various other religious based oppressions. Witness doctors providing legal medical procedures being shot up or blown up. Witness the likes of Sarah Palin saying war is "God's plan".
When Christians block legislation because they fear it will hamper their ability to hate other groups, I say it's time to do away with the religion itself.

It's all well and good to point out the flaws in one's religion, and I contend that is a good thing. The problem though is those flaws are built in.

When one's god hates, that god's adherents must hate.

[0JesusFreak]

Who said God hates!? God is a being of love. Just because He showed disciplinary action toward His own children doesn't mean that He hates them! Should not a father slap his childs hand for stealing or spank the child for saying something it shouldn't? A father that doesn't is a horrible father and the child would be better off with someone else.

God Loves us so much that He had his own Son, his own flesh and blood, so to speak, give up immortality to come to earth in order to teach us and then die and be resurrected after being tortured so that we had an easier way to the path of forgiveness. This is the whole foundation of the Christian faith.

Now I agree that many of us don't see clearly and often make mistakes, but that is all part of the experience of being human. No one man (or woman) is better than another, the only reason we speak the way we do so fervently is because everyone believes different things and that means that a majority of humanity is wrong no matter who is right. It is because of this that we speak so strongly, because a true Christian has a part of him that doesn't want to be right for if it is then...well you should know the rest.

[Lux]

The statement of "Separation of Church" and State being in the constitution is entirely false and I can prove it.

All anyone needs to do is look up the U.S. Constitution on the web and use ctrl+F. search for any part of that and you won't find "Separation of Church and State" anywhere in it.

So my question is this: why and how do the politicians get away with this everytime?
(I'm actually surprised that I couldn't find a post about this.)

What is it they "get away with"? Have they done something bad in the name of separation of church and state?
In another post in this topic you say we all deserve equal representation in the government. How could that be possible if a church that only represents the ideals and morals of part of the population had the power to interfere in government issues?

[0JesusFreak]

Honestly, after a lot of introspection and listening to God, maybe separation of church and state is for the best but not for the reasons originally implied. Christians are supposed to lead by example. We should stay out of politics for our own good or else politics will destroy Christians and the Christian faith. I guess I just forgot about that 'til now.

[Miles]

Who said God hates!?

How about your Bible.


Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."