As I am part Appalachian and grew up in a blue collar urban Appalachian neighborhood where cars were jacked up, stripped, and rebuilt in a day....seems to me, a good background for theology.
So. If we get the wrenches going backwards and start letting parts drop off the vehicle, I wonder what we end up with.
-Dump the God-man myth
-Dump Trinity
-Dump Original Sin
-Dump Heaven & Hell
-Dump Sacraments
-Keep Messiah
-Keep Resurrection
-Keep Kingdom of God
Well, it's a start.
Can Christianity Be De-Hellenized?
Moderator: Moderators
Post #2
Sounds like my old neighborhood. :2gun:Jonah wrote:cars were jacked up, stripped, and rebuilt in a day
Christianity won't dump Original Sin or Heaven and Hell, because without these, there's no need for a Messiah or for a Resurrection.Jonah wrote:So. If we get the wrenches going backwards and start letting parts drop off the vehicle, I wonder what we end up with.
-Dump the God-man myth
-Dump Trinity
-Dump Original Sin
-Dump Heaven & Hell
-Dump Sacraments
-Keep Messiah
-Keep Resurrection
-Keep Kingdom of God
Well, it's a start.
I say we dump denominations.
-Dump Mormonism
-Dump Catholicism (or at least the Pope and the whole celibacy idea.)
-Dump Calvinism
Several others as well, that's just for a starter
De-hellinize Christianity? It be nice. I highly doubt we'll live long enough to see it.
"Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." - Thomas Paine
Post #3
Hellenistic Christianity invented neither messiah or resurrection. These were in Judaism without heaven & hell.
Messiah is for the deliverance of Israel & redemption of the world in human history outside of any heaven/hell.
Resurrection is resurrection from death to this earth, not to a heaven or hell.
So. On this score, a de-Hellenized Christianity would accept the man Jesus as the Messiah...not a god, and that this man appointed by God has ushered in a new era leading to a future time when God's Kindom on earth is complete at which time the dead will be resurrected. This is the probable belief structure of the Jewish Christians under James before the Hellenist Pauline thing kicked in.
The question of how Jesus then is messiah in an elongated way through death, resurrection, ascension...and return is the thing mainstream Judaism would have an issue with...but it's not as bid a deal as Hellenistic Judaism claiming Jesus was God. Mainstream Jews allowed the Jewish Christians to remain in their fold with their claim of Jesus being the Messiah. Messianic movements come and go.
Interestingly, the original toleration of Jewish Christianity is replicated today within Judaism, as again, we have a similar situation. The disciples of Rabbi Schneerson are in the business of making him the Messiah. He died in 1994. Jews are not kicking the Lubivitchers out of Judaism. The paralells between the Lubivitchers and the early Jewish-Christians is quite remarkable.
Messiah is for the deliverance of Israel & redemption of the world in human history outside of any heaven/hell.
Resurrection is resurrection from death to this earth, not to a heaven or hell.
So. On this score, a de-Hellenized Christianity would accept the man Jesus as the Messiah...not a god, and that this man appointed by God has ushered in a new era leading to a future time when God's Kindom on earth is complete at which time the dead will be resurrected. This is the probable belief structure of the Jewish Christians under James before the Hellenist Pauline thing kicked in.
The question of how Jesus then is messiah in an elongated way through death, resurrection, ascension...and return is the thing mainstream Judaism would have an issue with...but it's not as bid a deal as Hellenistic Judaism claiming Jesus was God. Mainstream Jews allowed the Jewish Christians to remain in their fold with their claim of Jesus being the Messiah. Messianic movements come and go.
Interestingly, the original toleration of Jewish Christianity is replicated today within Judaism, as again, we have a similar situation. The disciples of Rabbi Schneerson are in the business of making him the Messiah. He died in 1994. Jews are not kicking the Lubivitchers out of Judaism. The paralells between the Lubivitchers and the early Jewish-Christians is quite remarkable.
