Roman Catholic shed Crocodile Tears

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McCulloch
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Roman Catholic shed Crocodile Tears

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

the Associated Press wrote:Catholic Church shamed by Irish abuse report

By SHAWN POGATCHNIK

DUBLIN (AP) — After a nine-year investigation, a commission published a damning report Wednesday on decades of rapes, humiliation and beatings at Catholic Church-run reform schools for Ireland's castaway children.

The 2,600-page report painted the most detailed and damning portrait yet of church-administered abuse in a country grown weary of revelations about child molestation by priests.

The investigation of the tax-supported schools uncovered previously secret Vatican records that demonstrated church knowledge of pedophiles in their ranks all the way back to the 1930s.

Wednesday's five-volume report on the probe — which was resisted by Catholic religious orders — concluded that church officials shielded their orders' pedophiles from arrest amid a culture of self-serving secrecy.

"A climate of fear, created by pervasive, excessive and arbitrary punishment, permeated most of the institutions and all those run for boys. Children lived with the daily terror of not knowing where the next beating was coming from," Ireland's Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse concluded.

Victims of the abuse, who are now in their 50s to 80s, lobbied long and hard for an official investigation. They say that for all its incredible detail, the report doesn't nail down what really matters — the names of their abusers.

"I do genuinely believe that it would have been a further step towards our healing if our abusers had been named and shamed," said Christine Buckley, 62, who spent the first 18 years of her life in a Dublin orphanage where children were forced to manufacture rosaries — and were humiliated, beaten and raped whether they achieved their quota or not.

The Catholic religious orders that ran more than 50 workhouse-style reform schools from the late 19th century until the mid-1990s offered public words of apology, shame and regret Wednesday. But when questioned, their leaders indicated they would continue to protect the identities of clergy accused of abuse — men and women who were never reported to police, and were instead permitted to change jobs and keep harming children.

The Christian Brothers, which ran several boys' institutions deemed to have harbored serial child molesters and sadists on their staff, insisted it had cooperated fully with the probe. The order successfully sued the commission in 2004 to keep the identities of all of its members, dead or alive, unnamed in the report. No real names, whether of victims or perpetrators, appear in the final document.

The Christian Brothers' leader in Ireland, Brother Kevin Mullan, said the organization had been right to keep names secret because "perhaps we had doubts about some of the allegations."

"But on the other hand, I'd have to say that at this stage, we have no interest in protecting people who were perpetrators of abuse," Mullan said, vowing to "cooperate fully with any investigation or any civil authority seeking to explore those matters."

Buckley, who said she was abused at an orphanage run by the Sisters of Mercy, which ran several refuges for girls where the report documented chronic brutality, said the religious orders for years branded the victims as money-seeking liars — and were incapable of admitting their guilt today.

She criticized Mullan for suggesting that "today, having read the report, he doesn't mind if the abusers are named and shamed. Isn't that a little bit late for us?"

The report found that molestation and rape were "endemic" in boys' facilities, chiefly run by the Christian Brothers order, and supervisors pursued policies that increased the danger. Girls supervised by orders of nuns, chiefly the Sisters of Mercy, suffered much less sexual abuse but frequent assaults and humiliation designed to make them feel worthless.

"In some schools a high level of ritualized beating was routine. ... Girls were struck with implements designed to maximize pain and were struck on all parts of the body," the report said. "Personal and family denigration was widespread."

Ireland's myriad religious orders, much like their mother church, have been devastated by 15 years of scandals involving past cover-ups of abusers in their ranks.

The Christian Brothers have withdrawn from running several schools that still bear their name and the order has had few recruits in Ireland in the past two decades. Other orders are down to a handful of members, and their bases are closer to nursing homes than active missions.

"Most of these orders will literally die out in Ireland within the next generation or so," said Michael Kelly, editor of the Irish Catholic newspaper in Dublin. "Many of them are already in wind-up mode. They lack the confidence even to seek new vocations (recruits), due to the stigma associated with their members' shocking, scandalous behavior."

The Irish government, which in 1999 apologized for its role in permitting decades of abuse and established the commission to nail down the full truth of the matter, has tried to use money to bring closure to the victims.

A government-appointed panel has paid 12,000 survivors of the schools, orphanages and other church-run residences an average of $90,000 each — on condition they surrender their right to sue either the church or state. About 2,000 more claims are pending. Irish Catholic leaders cut a controversial deal with the government in 2001 that capped the church's contribution at $175 million — a fraction of the final cost.

Some victims emphasized, even as they began thumbing through the report, that nothing — not even criminal convictions of their long-ago tormentors — will ever put right their psychological wounds and make their nightmares go away.

Tom Sweeney, who spent five years in two Christian Brothers-run institutions where he was placed for truancy, says he suffered sexual abuse and beatings. He also has bitter memories about more everyday humiliations — such as being forced to wrap his urine-stained sheets around his neck and parade in front of other children when he'd wet his bed.

"It's something you'll never forget, the way you lived in these industrial schools," he said.
The Catholic religious orders offered public words of apology, shame and regret.
The Christian Brothers insisted it had cooperated fully with the probe. "We have no interest in protecting people who were perpetrators of abuse. "

Yet, secret Vatican records that demonstrated church knowledge of pedophiles in their ranks all the way back to the 1930s. The Catholic religious orders resisted the probe which concluded that church officials shielded their orders' pedophiles from arrest amid a culture of self-serving secrecy. Their leaders indicated they would continue to protect the identities of clergy accused of abuse. They will continue to keep these criminals from being reported to police. The order successfully sued the commission in 2004 to keep the identities of all of its members, dead or alive, unnamed in the report. Irish Catholic leaders cut a deal with the government in 2001 that capped the church's contribution at $175 million — a fraction of the final cost.

These are the acts of an organization who's only regret and shame it to have been caught out.

Questions for debate:
  1. What should the Roman Catholic Church do in Ireland?
  2. Why should anyone believe the public apology of an organization which continues to protect perpetrators of abuse?
  3. Why has the Church been resistant to such probes? Is it afraid of the truth?
  4. Should confession and penance be enough or should there be criminal charges? Should the Church co-operate in the investigations? Should they breach the confidentiality of the confessional to do so? Should penance include full confession to legal authorities?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

cnorman18

Roman Catholic shed Crocodile Tears

Post #2

Post by cnorman18 »

I have written elsewhere that the exposure of institutionally sanctioned and protected child abuse by Roman Catholic clergy is the most damaging and destructive crisis in the history of the Church. It makes the sale of "indulgences" in the Middle Ages look like running an unlicensed lemonade stand.

The way the Church deals with this crisis will determine its future and possibly its very survival. The following, in my opinion, are the minimum requirements for a genuine and credible effort at reform of the Church:

(1) The immediate exposure, defrocking, excommunication, and total cooperation with and support of the prosecution of any person who was directly involved with abuse;

(2) The immediate exposure, defrocking, excommunication, and total cooperation with and support of the prosecution of any person who enabled or concealed such abuse, including bishops, abbots, Mothers Superior, archbishops, monsignors, and cardinals who signed off on the transfer of known abusers to other dioceses where the abuse continued, or otherwise took no appropriate action;

(3) The institution of an office dedicated to complaints of abuse, past, present and future, which is independent of the Church hierarchy, staffed by laymen, and is answerable only to civil authorities and the public and in no way to the Church;

(4) The immediate release of all records and documents concerning allegations of abuse, including the records of any and all Church councils and deliberations that dealt with them, with the names of all parties made public;

(5) An unequivocal statement from Pope Benedict that includes an explicit confession of the collective guilt of the Church as an institution for these crimes, an unequivocal statement of repentance of these crimes, and an unequivocal and verifiable pledge that they will be neither repeated nor tolerated in the future.

Breaking the seal of the confession al seems to me unnecessary; the sanctity of that seal seems to me to be essential to Catholic practice, and its abandonment is perhaps too much to ask.

But:

(6) It should become a matter of canon law that public confession of and submission to prosecution by a guilty plea for these crimes - and perhaps any crimes - is an absolute requirement for penance and absolution, which latter will be withheld indefinitely absent such a confession and guilty plea. In the case of a priest, a further requirement will be an immediate and permanent resignation from the priesthood. If a practicing Catholic will not submit himself for prosecution by the civil authorities, let him be explicitly consigned, by canon law, to Hell.

If the Church will do these things, and very, very soon, it MAY survive this crisis. If it will not, its moral and spiritual credibility and authority are and will remain nil, and it will eventually disappear and become extinct.

That's my take.

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McCulloch
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Re: Roman Catholic shed Crocodile Tears

Post #3

Post by McCulloch »

Thank you cnorman. I agree with the following reservations.
  1. The immediate exposure, defrocking, excommunication, and total cooperation with and support of the prosecution of any person who was directly involved with abuse;
  2. The immediate exposure, defrocking, excommunication, and total cooperation with and support of the prosecution of any person who enabled or concealed such abuse, including bishops, abbots, Mothers Superior, archbishops, monsignors, and cardinals who signed off on the transfer of known abusers to other dioceses where the abuse continued, or otherwise took no appropriate action;
    Items (1) and (2) I might exclude excommunication. But continued fellowship with the Church must be conditional on full and open cooperation by the offender with the authorities as a sign of true repentance.
  3. The institution of an office dedicated to complaints of abuse, past, present and future, which is independent of the Church hierarchy, staffed by laymen, and is answerable only to civil authorities and the public and in no way to the Church;
    with authorized access to all relevant records.
  4. The immediate release of all records and documents concerning allegations of abuse, including the records of any and all Church councils and deliberations that dealt with them, with the names of all parties made public;
  5. An unequivocal statement from Pope Benedict that includes an explicit confession of the collective guilt of the Church as an institution for these crimes, an unequivocal statement of repentance of these crimes, and an unequivocal and verifiable pledge that they will be neither repeated nor tolerated in the future.
  6. Breaking the seal of the confessional seems to me unnecessary; the sanctity of that seal seems to me to be essential to Catholic practice, and its abandonment is perhaps too much to ask.
    I disagree. No other organization is allowed to protect and harbor criminals in this way.

    It should become a matter of canon law that public confession of and submission to prosecution by a guilty plea for these crimes - and perhaps any crimes - is an absolute requirement for penance and absolution, which latter will be withheld indefinitely absent such a confession and guilty plea. In the case of a priest, a further requirement will be an immediate and permanent resignation from the priesthood. If a practicing Catholic will not submit himself for prosecution by the civil authorities, let him be explicitly consigned, by canon law, to Hell.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

CatholicDeacon
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Re: Roman Catholic shed Crocodile Tears

Post #4

Post by CatholicDeacon »

Hi McCulloch,

Since you send me a message asking me to "Debate these questions" I feel obliged to answer you. However (I hope I do not disappoint you but...) I really do not feel I could hold my own in a debate about this. My primary reason is this: I'm in Maryland. USA. The only knowledge I have about the mentioned report is from the MSM. I have never even been in Ireland. I have no access to the report in question nor I have the time to read a 900 pages document so I do not think I can present coherent arguments about this topic.
Perhaps if you can find another Catholic Cleric that is from your own country they would be able to accept your challenge. Having said this I would give you my (Very un-informed) take on your questions.
McCulloch wrote:
What should the Roman Catholic Church do in Ireland?
Repent, ask for forgiveness and try to help as much as possible those victimized.
McCulloch wrote: [*]Why should anyone believe the public apology of an organization which continues to protect perpetrators of abuse?
Apologies are made in the hope to reach forgiveness and reconciliation. However this does not mean that forgiveness and reconciliation can be found through a simple apology. It is up to those who have been hurt to accept or reject the apology. This does not deny the fact that sincere apologies are important to begin the healing process. In addition, they are a good way to show repentance and a willingness to change.
When Cardinal Shawn O'Connor became the bishop of Boston (USA) he went to parishes affected by our own sexual scandal and asked for forgiveness for the mistakes his predecessors. He prostrated himself on the floor and asked for forgiveness from God and the people he was called to shepherd. He followed this by selling His own house to pay reparation to some of the victims. I would call that a good example for the prelates of your country.
McCulloch wrote: [*]Why has the Church been resistant to such probes? Is it afraid of the truth?
I do not know much of the Church in Ireland, but that seems a fair assessment.
McCulloch wrote: [*]Should confession and penance be enough or should there be criminal charges?
Confession and penance should be offered to those who committed the acts, and if they are liable under the law they should be prosecuted.
McCulloch wrote: Should the Church co-operate in the investigations?
Most definitely.
McCulloch wrote: Should they breach the confidentiality of the confessional to do so?
No they should not. I'm not sure about Ireland but in the US the confessional seal is treated in the same way as lawyer-client or Patient-therapist privilege.
McCulloch wrote: Should penance include full confession to legal authorities?
That is a tricky one because we are suppose to confess what we remember. If a person is to old to remember but it is found guilty on the basis of evidence, how can they be given penance for a sin they do not remember committing?

Again sorry I could not be a better opponent, I hope that in the future we can debate other topic more akin to my (very limited) knowledge.


Viva Cristo Rey!

CatholicDeacon

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Re: Roman Catholic shed Crocodile Tears

Post #5

Post by McCulloch »

CatholicDeacon wrote:Since you send me a message asking me to "Debate these questions" I feel obliged to answer you. However (I hope I do not disappoint you but...) I really do not feel I could hold my own in a debate about this. My primary reason is this: I'm in Maryland. USA. The only knowledge I have about the mentioned report is from the MSM. I have never even been in Ireland. I have no access to the report in question nor I have the time to read a 900 pages document so I do not think I can present coherent arguments about this topic.
Perhaps if you can find another Catholic Cleric that is from your own country they would be able to accept your challenge. Having said this I would give you my (Very un-informed) take on your questions.
Thank you for responding. I know that this can be a very difficult issue and I did sort of put you on the spot.
McCulloch wrote:What should the Roman Catholic Church do in Ireland?
CatholicDeacon wrote:Repent, ask for forgiveness and try to help as much as possible those victimized.
According to the report, this is not what they have been doing. Do you agree with cnorman's list of minimum steps towards helping as much as possible?
McCulloch wrote:Why should anyone believe the public apology of an organization which continues to protect perpetrators of abuse?
CatholicDeacon wrote:Apologies are made in the hope to reach forgiveness and reconciliation. However this does not mean that forgiveness and reconciliation can be found through a simple apology. It is up to those who have been hurt to accept or reject the apology. This does not deny the fact that sincere apologies are important to begin the healing process. In addition, they are a good way to show repentance and a willingness to change.
Do you not agree that apologies without any signs of genuine repentance is analogous to faith without works?
CatholicDeacon wrote:When Cardinal Shawn O'Connor became the bishop of Boston (USA) he went to parishes affected by our own sexual scandal and asked for forgiveness for the mistakes his predecessors. He prostrated himself on the floor and asked for forgiveness from God and the people he was called to shepherd. He followed this by selling His own house to pay reparation to some of the victims. I would call that a good example for the prelates of your country.
My ancestors were Irish, but I am Canadian. Has O'Connor taken steps to see that those who committed criminal acts and those who aided and abetted them face criminal prosecution?
McCulloch wrote:Should the Church co-operate in the investigations?
CatholicDeacon wrote:Most definitely.
How far?
McCulloch wrote:Should they breach the confidentiality of the confessional to do so?
CatholicDeacon wrote:No they should not. I'm not sure about Ireland but in the US the confessional seal is treated in the same way as lawyer-client or Patient-therapist privilege.
If the abuse is ongoing or likely to continue, does not the confessor have a legal and ethical obligation to see that it stops?
McCulloch wrote:Should penance include full confession to legal authorities?
CatholicDeacon wrote:That is a tricky one because we are suppose to confess what we remember. If a person is to old to remember but it is found guilty on the basis of evidence, how can they be given penance for a sin they do not remember committing?
If it has been so long that the perpetrators no longer remember, then something is very far amiss. Apart from severe dementia, I cannot think that anyone would forget that they sexually abused children. They may not remember the specific cases, if it was a long standing habit and there were many, but I don't think you forget that you sexually abuse children.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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