Are We Doomed Without Religion?

[JoeyKnothead]

edit>I apologize for placing this in TD&D, it was my intent to post it in C&A

From TD&D:

If there is no Biblical morality there is nothing wrong with me butchering my neighbours stealing all they have and having a laugh about it afterwards, just got to avoid the cops, but how can they arrest me for it if there is no right or wrong, if we are simply accidents of nature what does it matter, hang around your kids schools getting em hooked on drugs, whats it matter, no right or wrong, Bible does not matter, police go away without a morality your just another gang, guess we better start shooting them too, all is good and bad and all is ok.

Question for debate:

Is this really the consequence of not having, or I assume not practicing, that good ol' time religion?
------------------------------------------------
I think the quote represents the demonizing nature of religion. It sets itself up as the sole moral authority, and presumably teaches its adherents that this is how folks would act without it.
I find these kinds of statements somewhat scary, in that among this belief system some of the most horrible atrocities mankind has ever witnessed occurred. It is under this guise that religion is the moral authority that some of the most vile, disgusting, immoral acts have been committed with officials aware, and indeed as part of the doctrine of the Church.
I think it further frightening to know that this type of thinking informs theist thinking as regards what others may act like without religious belief.
Mostly sad though that this is the kind of thinking that results from religious belief.

(additional edit for clarity)

[Nilloc James]

What about morals from other religious texts.

I think that disproves the claims the post Joey quoted brings up.

[cnorman18]

The ideas quoted in the OP are, put simply, nonsense.

If they were true, then all atheists would be criminals and all criminals atheists. Those periods of history when the Church was the supreme power and commanded kings and princes would have been periods of peace and tranquility and justice, and secular nations would be bloody anarchies.

Belief in right and wrong and belief in God and religion are not synonymous, and immorality and religion are not mutually exclusive.

Nonsense. There are coherent, if not necessarily strictly rational, arguments for religion. The inevitable collapse of society into anarchic barbarism without it is not one of them.

[ren]

edit>I apologize for placing this in TD&D, it was my intent to post it in C&A

From TD&D:

If there is no Biblical morality there is nothing wrong with me butchering my neighbours stealing all they have and having a laugh about it afterwards, just got to avoid the cops, but how can they arrest me for it if there is no right or wrong, if we are simply accidents of nature what does it matter, hang around your kids schools getting em hooked on drugs, whats it matter, no right or wrong, Bible does not matter, police go away without a morality your just another gang, guess we better start shooting them too, all is good and bad and all is ok.

Question for debate:

Is this really the consequence of not having, or I assume not practicing, that good ol' time religion?
------------------------------------------------
I think the quote represents the demonizing nature of religion. It sets itself up as the sole moral authority, and presumably teaches its adherents that this is how folks would act without it.
I find these kinds of statements somewhat scary, in that among this belief system some of the most horrible atrocities mankind has ever witnessed occurred. It is under this guise that religion is the moral authority that some of the most vile, disgusting, immoral acts have been committed with officials aware, and indeed as part of the doctrine of the Church.
I think it further frightening to know that this type of thinking informs theist thinking as regards what others may act like without religious belief.
Mostly sad though that this is the kind of thinking that results from religious belief.

(additional edit for clarity)

I guess religion did a job in preserving the moral standards we experience them nowadays, although it should not be given credit for having an explicit monopoly on them.

[Munchskreem]

edit>I apologize for placing this in TD&D, it was my intent to post it in C&A

From TD&D:

If there is no Biblical morality there is nothing wrong with me butchering my neighbours stealing all they have and having a laugh about it afterwards, just got to avoid the cops, but how can they arrest me for it if there is no right or wrong, if we are simply accidents of nature what does it matter, hang around your kids schools getting em hooked on drugs, whats it matter, no right or wrong, Bible does not matter, police go away without a morality your just another gang, guess we better start shooting them too, all is good and bad and all is ok.

Question for debate:

Is this really the consequence of not having, or I assume not practicing, that good ol' time religion?
------------------------------------------------
I think the quote represents the demonizing nature of religion. It sets itself up as the sole moral authority, and presumably teaches its adherents that this is how folks would act without it.
I find these kinds of statements somewhat scary, in that among this belief system some of the most horrible atrocities mankind has ever witnessed occurred. It is under this guise that religion is the moral authority that some of the most vile, disgusting, immoral acts have been committed with officials aware, and indeed as part of the doctrine of the Church.
I think it further frightening to know that this type of thinking informs theist thinking as regards what others may act like without religious belief.
Mostly sad though that this is the kind of thinking that results from religious belief.

(additional edit for clarity)

A lot of faiths try to hold a monopoly on what is "right" in order to make such wild claims as that if people don't follow them, then they're a potential fiend. Of course, that's within their own scope of morality. Outside of that, questions of "right" and "wrong" become far more ambiguous, but are not in most cases simply thrown off. They can claim all they want that nonbelievers are amoral according to their standards, but claims that we will descend into anarchy have already been disproven simply by existing NOW with widely disparate ethical codes and still not tearing our society to shreds.

[spiritletter]

I have found that spiritual work is necessary for my emotional survival in a world that offers a lot of rage, violence and greed. Instead of always reacting to things, I find myself feeling saner following my faith. I cannot change another human being nor do I have much more power than my own vote to fix any of the political injustices in the world. I can't make someone stop doing crack and I can't control the behavior of others generally.

What gives me freedom is my spiritual practice. I am less likely to lose my temper, get depressed and be cynical, and therefore can be more effective in the world. I am less likely to get into shouting matches and more likely to quietly discuss. I am also developing an ability to let things go, to not take the bait, and thus avoid a lot of stress.

If I can't affect the world in a big way, I can do my small part much better by practicing my faith.

I am also aware of the many misuses of religion and the way that religion has been used to justify mass violence and retribution, snobbery and divisiveness, and thus include in my practice checks and balances against those tendencies in myself.

I think that unless the world finds some kind of nondenominational bond, we may very likely destroy ourselves, particularly as populations reach critical mass.

[Mere_Christian]

I guess religion did a job in preserving the moral standards we experience them nowadays, although it should not be given credit for having an explicit monopoly on them.

Religion? "Religion."

What does that even mean?

For example, I've read the New Testament through quite a few times, and I just don't see the founding of a religion.

I've heard this said many times, but I just don't see the trappings (or rather wrappings) of a religion.

[tyga]

I guess religion did a job in preserving the moral standards we experience them nowadays, although it should not be given credit for having an explicit monopoly on them.

Religion? "Religion."

What does that even mean?

For example, I've read the New Testament through quite a few times, and I just don't see the founding of a religion.

I've heard this said many times, but I just don't see the trappings (or rather wrappings) of a religion.

Religion:

. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Although religions and the religious, generally claim to bestow morality, the truth of the matter is that this mistaken claim, is entirely fraudulent.

Morals, Ethics, Virtues and Values, in spite of religion, are to be found within every culture. Even atheists display high levels of these desirable characteristics.

Contrary to popular belief, religion adopts socially acceptable codes of conduct and not the other way around.

[spiritletter]

I guess religion did a job in preserving the moral standards we experience them nowadays, although it should not be given credit for having an explicit monopoly on them.

Religion? "Religion."

What does that even mean?

For example, I've read the New Testament through quite a few times, and I just don't see the founding of a religion.

I've heard this said many times, but I just don't see the trappings (or rather wrappings) of a religion.

Religion:

. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Although religions and the religious, generally claim to bestow morality, the truth of the matter is that this mistaken claim, is entirely fraudulent.

Morals, Ethics, Virtues and Values, in spite of religion, are to be found within every culture. Even atheists display high levels of these desirable characteristics.

Contrary to popular belief, religion adopts socially acceptable codes of conduct and not the other way around.

I agree, which is why I use the word "spiritual" when I describe my own practice. For example, it is unlikely that Christ, Buddha, Mahavira, Mohamed, etc. intended to found religions. Great teachers, true, but not administrators.

[tyga]

I agree, which is why I use the word "spiritual" when I describe my own practice. For example, it is unlikely that Christ, Buddha, Mahavira, Mohamed, etc. intended to found religions. Great teachers, true, but not administrators.

Indeed, however I would not be inclined to include Muhammad as a "great teacher".

In fact, I find many of the principals taught in Islam to be exceptionally offensive to say the least, not to forget to mention the way it is practised.