Athanasian Creed - The Man-Made Doctrine

[2timothy316]

For clarity, is the Athanasian Creed found here https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/c ... sian-creed the accepted belief of the trinity for all trinitarians?
If not what is? Who is reading this creed for the first time? Who considers it to be holy scripture?

The creed ends with "one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully."
If it isn't scripture...How do they have the authority to say such a thing?

[The Tanager]

Why change the subject? I have said this before. This thread isn't about what I believe. The title of this thread isn't about what the JW website says either. Start your own thread about the JW website. I'm growing tired of not getting an answer. Getting questions in answer to questions isn't a real answer.

I'm not changing the subject. I'm trying to help you understand my answer since you think I haven't been giving you one. If I could understand your view on that website in relation to scripture (I'm not saying anything about the truth of the specific content), I might be able to help you see my answer concerning the Athanasian creed. Do you consider the JW website scripture? Do you consider that website man-made? Is it something other than those two options?

If you still think I'm playing a game, then you have an out and you can write me off; all I can do is say that I don't play silly games like that and I'm really after communication out of respect for you. We don't agree on theological matters, but I do appreciate discussing things cordially with people who disagree with me to challenge my own views. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this and many other topics here.

[2timothy316]

Why change the subject? I have said this before. This thread isn't about what I believe. The title of this thread isn't about what the JW website says either. Start your own thread about the JW website. I'm growing tired of not getting an answer. Getting questions in answer to questions isn't a real answer.

I'm not changing the subject. I'm trying to help you understand my answer since you think I haven't been giving you one. If I could understand your view on that website in relation to scripture (I'm not saying anything about the truth of the specific content), I might be able to help you see my answer concerning the Athanasian creed. Do you consider the JW website scripture? Do you consider that website man-made? Is it something other than those two options?

If you still think I'm playing a game, then you have an out and you can write me off; all I can do is say that I don't play silly games like that and I'm really after communication out of respect for you. We don't agree on theological matters, but I do appreciate discussing things cordially with people who disagree with me to challenge my own views. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this and many other topics here.

No one else is giving an answer either. But at least you attempted? Apparently I've asked a really hard question. Until there is someone who can let their yes mean yes and their no mean no, there is nothing to discuss.

[SiNcE_1985]

Jesus is holy because the Father made him so by His commands to His Son which the Son obeyed. (Philippians 2: 8-11) Yes, and Jesus was God's perfect representation. Therefore he could be said to be holy. That must align with other scriptures, and no other scriptures hint that Jesus is God. To see Jesus and the Father as one, that simply means that Jesus and his Father were carbon copies, if you will....like Father, like Son. They agreed on everything, and again, Jesus was a perfect reflection of his Father.

You cannot be a perfect representation of someone who is perfect, without yourself being perfect.

If God has an equal in terms of his holiness, then that which is also holy..is also God.

No way around it.

[onewithhim]

Jesus is holy because the Father made him so by His commands to His Son which the Son obeyed. (Philippians 2: 8-11) Yes, and Jesus was God's perfect representation. Therefore he could be said to be holy. That must align with other scriptures, and no other scriptures hint that Jesus is God. To see Jesus and the Father as one, that simply means that Jesus and his Father were carbon copies, if you will....like Father, like Son. They agreed on everything, and again, Jesus was a perfect reflection of his Father.

You cannot be a perfect representation of someone who is perfect, without yourself being perfect.

If God has an equal in terms of his holiness, then that which is also holy..is also God.

No way around it.

My answer stands. We'll see what the truth is when Jesus comes back.

[SiNcE_1985]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #94]

We shall.

[Capbook]

Jesus is holy because the Father made him so by His commands to His Son which the Son obeyed. (Philippians 2: 8-11) Yes, and Jesus was God's perfect representation. Therefore he could be said to be holy. That must align with other scriptures, and no other scriptures hint that Jesus is God. To see Jesus and the Father as one, that simply means that Jesus and his Father were carbon copies, if you will....like Father, like Son. They agreed on everything, and again, Jesus was a perfect reflection of his Father.

You cannot be a perfect representation of someone who is perfect, without yourself being perfect.

If God has an equal in terms of his holiness, then that which is also holy..is also God.

No way around it.

My answer stands. We'll see what the truth is when Jesus comes back.

Why wait for the second coming of Jesus? There are many verses in the Bible that says Jesus is God.
We believe there is only one God.
We believe that Jesus is man.
And Romans 9:5 says;
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.(NIV)

[MissKate13]

For clarity, is the Athanasian Creed found here https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/c ... sian-creed the accepted belief of the trinity for all trinitarians?
If not what is? Who is reading this creed for the first time? Who considers it to be holy scripture?

The creed ends with "one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully."
If it isn't scripture...How do they have the authority to say such a thing?

Good OP! Excellent questions.

The Bible is our only creed! It alone is authorized by God.

There were no creeds other than the inspired Scriptures for hundreds of years after the establishment of the Lord’s church in the 1st Century.

The creeds of men (statements of beliefs) have done nothing more than cause division amongst believers.

We have what God has given us, the Scriptures. God said they were sufficient for us (2 Timothy 3:16). He said we must not add to, or subtract from them. If we want to please God and be faithful to His word, we need to throw away the creeds of men and return to God’s divine word.

That said, the Scriptures do teach that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one (1 John 5:7).

Imho, each of us must read the Scriptures through no one’s lenses but our own. We must pray to our Father in heaven that He show us HIS truth and not our church leaders.

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 John 4:1)

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thess. 5:21)

God bless,
Kate