Is your sin Original?

[polonius]

The description of “original shin “ isn’t found in the Bible but it’s linked to the story about the Genesis serpent that convinced Eve and later Adam to eat the “forbidden fruit.�

Actually, the story was developed by St. Augustine in the 4th century working from a mistranslated Latin bible which had added the phrase “In quo� (in whom) in chapter 5� of St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans.

So in some mysterious way all people born were guilty with “the stain" of Adam’s and Eve’s sin. In the seventh century this led to the formulation of the Immaculate Concept doctrine which the Catholic church still considers infallible to this day. It might be noted that the Eastern Catholic Church recognizing Augustine’s writings error has never recognized Original Sin or the Immaculate Conception.

[ttruscott]

Spiritual means they are spirits, non-corporeal people. Natural means they have been covered in a physical body given to them by the Son of man if they were the sinful people of the kingdom and by the devil if they were the people of the evil one, Matt 13:37-9.

Spirits aren't hindered by physical laws.

So how can spirits be "covered" by a physical body? Spirits move as the wind. We fly in planes. There's a difference. Spirits can't be covered by anything physical.

Ummm, the word knit in Psalm 139:13 For You formed my inmost being; You knit me together ... means "to cover."
KNIT: S5526. cakak
Strong's Concordance
cakak: cover
Definition: to overshadow, screen, cover Your theological argument against the spirit being put into a body, Matt 13:36-39, is rejected.

Thanks for sharing, I've learned a lot about your theology...

[ttruscott]

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

Satan lied when he informed Eve that she would live forever. Mainstream Christian theologians have incorporated that lie into their theologies for nearly two thousand years!

Apparently, PCE accepts it also.

Deeply so, not just apparently...

Satan was not lying to her but speaking the truth they both knew that she was an elect, predestined by her election to be YHWH's bride in heaven, not condemned to eternal death...

a truth he used to sucker her into being faithful to that truth by disobeying the command to prove her faithfulness to that truth. Every sinner dies in body (which she may or may not have known) but no elect dies the eternal death which is what they were talking about.

Satan tells the truth (our favour with GOD) to sell the lie (so disobedience has no consequence) as we have seen often before...

[myth-one.com]

The JWs believe man has no spirit but is flesh only; is that your belief?

I believe the Bible, which is that there is a natural body and a spiritual body:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

And they do not mix:

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. (I Corinthians 15:40)

The natural body comes first and may be followed by the spiritual body:

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (I Corinthians 15:46)

What verses describe the rebirth of people in the spirit (or the resurrection ) as a creation of new spirits, please?

The definition of Christians being born again at the resurrection is in First Corinthians:

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (I Corinthians 15:42-45)

This scripture is not complicated!

The Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies.

Thus as stated earlier, the natural body comes first and may be followed by a spiritual body depending on whether or not one accepts Jesus as their Savior.

The two body types are never said to comingle as you believe.

[ttruscott]

Quote:
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

And they do not mix:

Of course they don't mix - only you are worried about that. A spirit in a physical body does not yet have a spiritual body as that is after the resurrection. Conflating the spirit body with a spirit in a body is ...weird.

The two body types are never said to comingle as you believe.

No I don't; your strawman is dead.

[myth-one.com]

mythology.one. com posted:

Satan lied when he informed Eve that she would live forever. Mainstream Christian theologians have incorporated that lie into their theologies for nearly two thousand years!

Apparently, PCE accepts it also.

RESPONSE:Actually, before any original sin had been committed, people would live forever. Look up the preternatural gifts of man.

They're all great stories!

Correct. If the wages of sin is death, and they never sinned, then they should never die.

But they were not created immortal, where immortal means incapable of dying.

Under a certain set of the events, their mortality was possible.

The first necessary event was at least one commandment from God that they could choose to disobey.

And the other event would be their actual sin by disobeying that one commandment which they had been given.

Under those circumstances they died to pay the wages for their sin.

====================================

It's a mystery how they could have eternally dodged fatal accidents, murders, animal attacks, etc. Perhaps Godly protection.

[myth-one.com]

Quote:
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

And they do not mix:

Of course they don't mix - only you are worried about that. A spirit in a physical body does not yet have a spiritual body as that is after the resurrection. Conflating the spirit body with a spirit in a body is ...weird.

The two body types are never said to comingle as you believe.

No I don't; your strawman is dead.

Spiritual means they are spirits, non-corporeal people. Natural means they have been covered in a physical body given to them by the Son of man if they were the sinful people of the kingdom and by the devil if they were the people of the evil one, Matt 13:37-9.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

Above you have a spiritual body covered by a natural body.

Sure sounds like mixing to me:

Definition of mixing: Combine or put together to form one substance or mass:

[polonius]

truscott posted:

Given - that no one is guilty of a sin they did not choose to do

RESPONSE: So you are claiming the teaching that we all are guilty of Adam's sin (Original Sin) is false?

[ttruscott]

truscott posted:

Given - that no one is guilty of a sin they did not choose to do

RESPONSE: So you are claiming the teaching that we all are guilty of Adam's sin (Original Sin) is false?

For almost 7 years I have been here teaching the PCE pov and every time I see the orthodox version of our original sin as an inheritance from Adam I have contended against it as it is a basic tenet of the PCE theology that we are became sinful for the sin we choose to do by our free will.

I am so glad that our paths finally crossed and you have given me a chance to express my opinion once again. I consider that the inheritance of Adam's sin is a blasphemy because it makes GOD the author and creator of evil. GOD did not need to make me a human in Adam's line but could have made me an angel for instance so the sin that was created when I was created as human is GOD caused with therefore no fault of my own, a theology so wrong it is utterly impossible to know why orthodoxy chose to accept it...GOD DOES NOT CREATE EVIL!

That orthodoxy still clings to this blasphemy as a foundation of their theology is an amazement to me...talk about building on sand, sigh.

[myth-one.com]

truscott posted:

Given - that no one is guilty of a sin they did not choose to do

RESPONSE: So you are claiming the teaching that we all are guilty of Adam's sin (Original Sin) is false?

For almost 7 years I have been here teaching the PCE pov and every time I see the orthodox version of our original sin as an inheritance from Adam I have contended against it as it is a basic tenet of the PCE theology that we are became sinful for the sin we choose to do by our free will.

I am so glad that our paths finally crossed and you have given me a chance to express my opinion once again. I consider that the inheritance of Adam's sin is a blasphemy because it makes GOD the author and creator of evil. GOD did not need to make me a human in Adam's line but could have made me an angel for instance so the sin that was created when I was created as human is GOD caused with therefore no fault of my own, a theology so wrong it is utterly impossible to know why orthodoxy chose to accept it...GOD DOES NOT CREATE EVIL!

That orthodoxy still clings to this blasphemy as a foundation of their theology is an amazement to me...talk about building on sand, sigh.

You are absolutely correct that we are all individually responsible for the sins that we choose to commit through our individual free will. Good for PCE!

And yet (if I understand it correctly) you believe that humans are created with sin.

Your conclusion is apparently that you existed and sinned in a previous existence.

============================================

Here's a path to the light for PCE!

Sin is the transgression of the commandments of God which are also called the law:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:

To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

Infants do not understand the commandments of God. That is, they have no law.

Thus, sins are not imputed to infants.

Upon earthly birth as a human no sins can be charged against you as you have no knowledge of the law.

You could accept blame for every sin ever committed by all living beings who ever existed.

And thankfully, none of these laws would be charged against you!

You are all free to go. Welcome to earth again with a clean slate!

[ttruscott]

And yet (if I understand it correctly) you believe that humans are created with sin.

You just contradicted what you know I contend that we are all responsible for the sins we choose to do and then you claim I contend the opposite, that we were created in sin which implies without a choice??? Your need to refute me has taken you off the rails.

Every person created in GOD's image with a free will was given an equal ability and opportunity to CHOOSE by their free will to either become eternally righteous or eternally evil, as you have read before in this topic:

PCE contends that HE created everyone in HIS image ingenuously innocent with a free will and the equal ability and opportunity to choose to become either perfectly eternally righteous or perfectly and eternally evil. And so it started...

Where is there room for us to be created with sin???