A suggestion for Christians

OnceConvinced · Post by **OnceConvinced** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:56 pm

One of the topics we often discuss here is what makes a true Christian and what assures salvation and thus eternal life in Heaven? The big problem is we get many different people coming through here claiming to have the truth and correct understanding of scripture. However many of these people contradict each other. This is not at all helpful and I'm sure you agree that if one gets it wrong the ramifications are horrendous and many people, like I have, could spend their lives genuinely following what they believed to be Christ and correct doctrine, but find they were never true Christians to begin with because of their ignorance.

I'd like to suggest all the Christians get together in the Holy Huddle room to remedy this problem.

First of all, using holy spirit discernment, weed out all those who aren't true Christians

and with those of you left, nut out together what it takes to consider yourself a true Christian.

You all being true Christians and having the holy spirit within you, I would invisage no problem with accomplishing this task. You can then come back to us as a group with your final list of conditions to consider one a true Christian and worthy of eternal life; worshiping God for all eternity, thus ensuring that we lost and sinful folk have accurate information that we can accept or reject Christ by. $\:D/$

Also while you are at it, for those who completely reject the bible, perhaps you could also come to a unified agreement on what Hell actually is. Is it eternal suffering, death by fire or simply the grave? I'm sure with the understanding given to you by the holy spirit, this should be an easy question for you true Christians to answer and would leave us with little doubt what we are in for if we continue on our evil and abominable ways.

If any other people have any topics they'd like sorted out perhaps they can post them on this thread? I'm sure that the holy spirit will be able to deal with them all quickly and efficiently. Maybe at last we can find out what the real truth is and what the bible really is saying to us?

I look forward to our Christian members here showing the sort of unity Paul so desired amongst the believers. I'm sure you will be eager to assist God in spreading the truth to the rest of us here and the many thousands who come into this site and read.

......................

So now having read this OP do you agree that with the Holy spirit, this venture should be easily undertaken?

If not, why not?

And if Christians cannot come to a consensus amongst themselves, using the holy spirit to gain understanding, how can any unbelievers take the bible or Christians seriously? ](*,)

InTheFlesh · Post by **InTheFlesh** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:44 pm

Q: And why do you call it God?

A: What do you mean by God ?

You tell us.

You are the one who made the claim.

Did you not state that you do God's will?
What do you mean by God?

InTheFlesh · Post by **InTheFlesh** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:50 pm

dunsapy wrote:
What is there to blame God for?
Some people blame God for the world, the way it is. But really the one to blame is Satan.

I don't blame God.
I praise him for his goodness.
Why do you blame Satan?
Satan can not touch the people of God unless God allows.
Read the book of Job.
Like I said,
God is the BOSS!

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:51 pm

an

d the God who allows this Satan to operate, unimpeded in this world.
If I own a dangerous mad-dog and I let it run loose in the street attacking children, would the authorities blame me or the dog for the injuries?

The dog is an unreasoning animal. People are not that. People have understanding.
Because of free will, there would have always been this possibility. ( of disobeying God.) To answer this question, Satan was allowed , to continue,until God, has to step in, to save the earth and to save the ones of his choice.This time was set when man first sinned. So after Satan's time is up, this will never have to be repeated. So then man can live, under paradise conditions forever.
Man does not have to do the things he is doing now, he doesn't have to go to war, he doesn't have to rob and steal. He doesn't have to pollute. Man doesn't have to use up fossil fuels, he doesn't need plastics, or leave space junk that orbits the earth. What you see today, is man's doing, under Satan's influence.

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:12 pm

dunsapy wrote:
Quote:
What is there to blame God for?

Some people blame God for the world, the way it is. But really the one to blame is Satan.

I don't blame God.
I praise him for his goodness.
Why do you blame Satan?
Satan can not touch the people of God unless God allows.
Read the book of Job.
Like I said,
God is the BOSS!
Q: And why do you call it God?

A: What do you mean by God ?

You tell us. Whistle
You are the one who made the claim.

Did you not state that you do God's will?
What do you mean by God?

God is the creator of all we see.

God is a title, there are many Gods.

I serve Yahweh or in english Jehovah.
The name means: (Jeâ€§hoâ€²vah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb haâ€§wahâ€² (become); meaning â€œHe Causes to Becomeâ€�].
I don't think I ever said that, I do Gods will, if I did what I meant was I try to do Gods will. No one is perfect.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:24 pm

and the God who allows this Satan to operate, unimpeded in this world.
If I own a dangerous mad-dog and I let it run loose in the street attacking children, would the authorities blame me or the dog for the injuries?

dunsapy wrote:The dog is an unreasoning animal. People are not that. People have understanding.

You missed the analogy. In my analogy, the mad-dog is not a human, it is Satan. According to you, God owns Satan and God allows Satan to operate in this world. Why then should we not blame God for what he has allowed Satan to do? You would blame me if I allowed a mad-dog to run free in the streets, injuring other humans.

dunsapy wrote:Because of free will, there would have always been this possibility. ( of disobeying God.)

Are you claiming that we could not choose to disobey unless there was an evil tempter? Are you simply repeating the excuses of Adam and Eve? It was that woman you gave me. It was the serpent.

dunsapy wrote:To answer this question, Satan was allowed , to continue, until God, has to step in, to save the earth and to save the ones of his choice. This time was set when man first sinned. So after Satan's time is up, this will never have to be repeated. So then man can live, under paradise conditions forever.

If God has already chosen, why put the rest of us through the misery of living? If God knows who will select the correct beliefs, then why have this earthly testing ground? Your God does not make much sense.

dunsapy wrote:Man does not have to do the things he is doing now, he doesn't have to go to war, he doesn't have to rob and steal. He doesn't have to pollute. Man doesn't have to use up fossil fuels, he doesn't need plastics, or leave space junk that orbits the earth. What you see today, is man's doing, under Satan's influence.

Why involve Satan? Why not just accept that what humans are doing, for good or for ill, is what humans do? There is no explanatory need to invent cosmic spiritual beings for good and evil.

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:42 pm

You missed the analogy. In my analogy, the mad-dog is not a human, it is Satan. According to you, God owns Satan and God allows Satan to operate in this world. Why then should we not blame God for what he has allowed Satan to do? You would blame me if I allowed a mad-dog to run free in the streets, injuring other humans.

Satan is not an unreasoning dog. He is very intelligent. He has free will.
Think of it like this, because you made a mistake when you were 5 years old, say you stole something, should God have gotten rid of you at that moment.
Or when you know better and you make some mistake when you are 30 years old. Should God come and turf you for that? ( even though it may have been a bad experience for your family, and your kids have to live with it, their whole life) You have your life to live, God has given you that. Even though you mess up and hurt people, God still lets you live your life. Adam when he messed up affected all his offspring. Satan in his life as a spirit creature, has his life to lead. We have a free choice to which side we want to be on.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:54 pm

You missed the analogy. In my analogy, the mad-dog is not a human, it is Satan. According to you, God owns Satan and God allows Satan to operate in this world. Why then should we not blame God for what he has allowed Satan to do? You would blame me if I allowed a mad-dog to run free in the streets, injuring other humans.

dunsapy wrote:Satan is not an unreasoning dog. He is very intelligent. He has free will.

Dogs are not unreasoning. Their reasoning is not as sophisticated as human reasoning and quite a bit more sophisticated than fish reasoning. Satan, according to what I have heard, is not very intelligent. Knowingly rebelling against an almighty God would not go down as a bright move in my books.

dunsapy wrote:Think of it like this, because you made a mistake when you were 5 years old, say you stole something, should God have gotten rid of you at that moment.
Or when you know better and you make some mistake when you are 30 years old. Should God come and turf you for that? ( even though it may have been a bad experience for your family, and your kids have to live with it, their whole life) You have your life to live, God has given you that. Even though you mess up and hurt people, God still lets you live your life. Adam when he messed up affected all his offspring. Satan in his life as a spirit creature, has his life to lead. We have a free choice to which side we want to be on.

But apparently God will not forgive him nor will Satan ever repent. Humans show greater mercy that your God by humanely putting down a dog which is known to continue to be a danger. Humans show more sense than your God by protecting society from psychopaths. You portray Satan as a psychopath, yet you continue to claim that God wants him to try to influence our behavior.

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:13 pm

Dogs are not unreasoning. Their reasoning is not as sophisticated as human reasoning and quite a bit more sophisticated than fish reasoning. Satan, according to what I have heard, is not very intelligent. Knowingly rebelling against an almighty God would not go down as a bright move in my books.

Dog's don't get it that if they attack humans, they are going to be put down.
Satan is very smart. But it wasn't anything to do with intelligence, Satan wanted people to look up to him and follow him not God. This is a more of an ego or power trip, as they used to say in the 60's.

But apparently God will not forgive him nor will Satan ever repent. Humans show greater mercy that your God by humanely putting down a dog which is known to continue to be a danger. Humans show more sense than your God by protecting society from psychopaths. You portray Satan as a psychopath, yet you continue to claim that God wants him to try to influence our behavior.

Actually Satan is to be put down. First in a type of prison, and then permanently. Satan does not have immortality. He can be put to death, and the bible says he will be.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:20 pm

dunsapy wrote:Satan is very smart.

Nothing you have presented supports that assertion.

dunsapy wrote:But it wasn't anything to do with intelligence, Satan wanted people to look up to him and follow him not God. This is a more of an ego or power trip, as they used to say in the 60's.

And I want to be elected benevolent world dictator. If I am very smart, I will not do self-defeating acts to try to achieve goals that I know are unattainable. You still have presented Satan as very stupid.

dunsapy wrote:Actually Satan is to be put down. First in a type of prison, and then permanently. Satan does not have immortality. He can be put to death, and the bible says he will be.

What is he waiting for? What possible good does it do to allow Satan to be the Ruler of this world? You present God as no better than a little boy who enjoys pulling the wings off of flies.

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:57 pm

And I want to be elected benevolent world dictator. If I am very smart, I will not do self-defeating acts to try to achieve goals that I know are unattainable. You still have presented Satan as very stupid.

What is he waiting for? What possible good does it do to allow Satan to be the Ruler of this world? You present God as no better than a little boy who enjoys pulling the wings off of flies.

I'm not going to fight you on that. I'm not going to defend him.

Like I said a few time's before, God has set the time when this doing away with Satan . There can be no reason that the other angels or man, can say, well if you gave it a little more time, man or science could have saved this planet. It will go to the brink, and then God will step, in. So there will be no misunderstanding this.

The bible says people will know that it is God, stepping in to save this world. But it will be too late then for jumping on the band wagon.
What is going happen is that God will put it into the minds of political men to turn on religion. To stamp it out. ( this will be world wide) This is going to come from the UN. The bible says that the US, will give this power to the UN.