Just WHO is God?

[MadJW]

In world religion there all kinds of Gods.
I, personally, have examined most of them and found them lacking.
Then I come to 'Christian' religion, and find that the majority of them don't know God at ALL!
I think one can have a serious debate on THIS site!

The Bible= Jehovah (Name removed by most 'Christian' churches)
Churchianity= there's Three!

[JehovahsWitness]

To Jesus as we believe He is God, as the Father addressed Him Lord in Heb 1:10,

To call someone your "Lord" is to recognise them as your Master / ruler or owners. How can the Father be EQUAL go the Son, if we understand Hebrews 1:10 in such a way?

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Did Jesus accept WORSHIP or HOMMAGE/OBEISANCE from his followers?
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To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED , LORD & SAVIOUR and ... JESUS

[onewithhim]

, the same Greek word of worship that the Father seeks to worship Him in John 4:23
But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.(NKJV)

And the same Greek word is found here ...

MATTHEW 18:26 NAB

At that, the servant fell down, did him [the King] homage, and said, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back full.’

Yes, it is used to refer to many. But Christians as true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. And a believer who worship others commits sin.

EXACTLY. You finally see it. Kudos to you.

[onewithhim]

When you say "correct" are you agreeing that the same word (proskuneo) can be rendered as worship OR something that is "not worship" in the bible ?

Yes...

So who gets to decide when to write in the word "WORSHIP" and when to write in the word "hommage" or (one of its synonyms)?

To whom worship is used to. To Jesus as we believe He is God, as the Father addressed Him Lord in Heb 1:10,

That the Father addressed Jesus as "Lord" at Heb.1:10 does not mean that Jesus is God. There are many "lords" and Jesus is the number one Lord, over all lords. To distinguish him from God (the Father), Paul wrote at I Corinthians 8:4b,5,6: "...There is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God,the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through him."

So anyone can be called "lord," but there is one God above all, the Father, Jehovah. It doesn't mean that Jesus is God when the Father calls him "Lord." Jesus is the Lord above all lords, distinguished from the one God, the Father. You will notice in the scripture cited that there is God, AND there is one Lord to us, Jesus. God AND Jesus. Two distinguished Beings.

[onewithhim]

When you say "correct" are you agreeing that the same word (proskuneo) can be rendered as worship OR something that is "not worship" in the bible ?

Yes...

So who gets to decide when to write in the word "WORSHIP" and when to write in the word "hommage" or (one of its synonyms)?

To whom worship is used to. To Jesus as we believe He is God, as the Father addressed Him Lord in Heb 1:10,

That does not anwser my question: Who gets to decide when to write in a translation the word "WORSHIP" and when to write in the word "hommage" or (one of its synonyms)?

Do you consider NWT? I've read some about it in the wikipedia. I just don't know about worship.

If you want to know truthfully about the NWT, go straight to the horse's mouth---read some of it yourself rather than relying on Wikipedia. And a brilliant source of truth is the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn. It explains many of the bad translations that are available to us, and imparts knowledge to us about how the verses should be rendered. And he is not a member of any particular religion, not like your sources who are clear trinitarians. BeDuhn only wants the truth.

[onewithhim]

Do you consider NWT? I've read some about it in the wikipedia. I just don't know about worship.

Download a copy from JW.org, if you're so inclined.

So who gets to decide when to write in the word "WORSHIP" and when to write in the word "hommage" or (one of its synonyms)?

The translator. The question, though, is how such a decision impacts the goals for the translation. The NWT, for example, says the following about its goals:

• "Our goal has been to produce a translation that is not only faithful to the original texts but also clear and easy to read."
• "A translator must use good judgment in order to select words in the target language that best represent the ideas of the original-language text."
• "At the same time, extremes in rewording the text must be avoided. A translator who liberally paraphrases the Bible according to how he interprets the overall idea could distort the meaning of the text. How so? The translator may erroneously insert his opinion of what the original text means or may omit important details contained in the original text."
• "At the same time, extremes in rewording the text must be avoided. A translator who liberally paraphrases the Bible according to how he interprets the overall idea could distort the meaning of the text. How so? The translator may erroneously insert his opinion of what the original text means or may omit important details contained in the original text."
• "We offer no paraphrase of the Scriptures. Our endeavor all through has been to give as literal a translation as possible, where the modern English idiom allows and where a literal rendition does not for any clumsiness hide the thought."

The main reason this is important for various uses of προσκυνέω is that both Matthew 4 and Luke 4 include variations of the temptation pericope in which the Devil offers power if Jesus offers him προσκυνέω. Jesus' rebuttal includes the admonishment that προσκυνέω should be reserved for God only. The problem with that is that both Matthew and Luke refer to others, including disciples, performing προσκυνέω to Jesus. The question is whether these should be translated differently and what translation purpose is served by doing so. Since the choice can have pretty profound theological importance, I think that at least in Matthew and Luke, all variations of προσκυνέω should be translated in the same way. Using "worship" for God the Father and "homage" for Jesus masks that in a way that violates the last two of the NWT's own translation precepts above. If the goal were a liturgical paraphrase, then the translators would be justified in incorporating their judgement that προσκυνέω means something different when applied to Jesus than when applied to the Father. Their stated goal, however, is that they "offer no paraphrase." That means that if it's ambiguous in Greek, as it is here, a proper translation should carry the same level of ambiguity in English. In this, the NWT has failed.

As a side note, the word hommage is French. The corresponding English word is homage.

I think that the NWT has succeeded in carrying over the true meanings of the texts.
And I believe JehovahsWitness is French.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #85]

Why is it, I wonder, that people are having a difficult time accepting what the Bible clearly says at Psalm 83:18:

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." (KJV)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #85]

Why is it, I wonder, that people are having a difficult time accepting what the Bible clearly says at Psalm 83:18:

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." (KJV)

This is very important---God's name in the Bible---and is worthy to be discussed. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 26:4; Isaiah 12:2; Exodus 6:3, KJV) Would not that be a worthy discussion?

[Capbook]

To do obeisance, so different meaning now but same word where it meant worship in the other verses. So if we look up what Obeisance means: a gesture expressing respect, such as a bow or curtsy. (quoted online)

So, since the same Greek word can be translated as worship or hommage/Obeisance , who gets to decide when to write in a translation the word "WORSHIP" and when to write in the word "hommage" or (one of its synonyms)? in the bible(s) YOU use,

Rev 22:19, We may understand the word "worship" differently but I believe it's not good to change writings of the Bible to our likings.

[onewithhim]

To do obeisance, so different meaning now but same word where it meant worship in the other verses. So if we look up what Obeisance means: a gesture expressing respect, such as a bow or curtsy. (quoted online)

So, since the same Greek word can be translated as worship or hommage/Obeisance , who gets to decide when to write in a translation the word "WORSHIP" and when to write in the word "hommage" or (one of its synonyms)? in the bible(s) YOU use,

Rev 22:19, We may understand the word "worship" differently but I believe it's not good to change writings of the Bible to our likings.

Just HOW has anyone "changed the writings of the Bible"? There has merely been a discussion of the meaning of "worship." If men can be "worshipped," like people in high places, judges, kings, etc., why wouldn't it be fair to say that Jesus is "worshipped"? What does "worship" mean when being applied to men in superior positions? Are they being worshipped as God Almighty? No! Neither is Jesus to be worshipped as God Almighty.

[Capbook]

To do obeisance, so different meaning now but same word where it meant worship in the other verses. So if we look up what Obeisance means: a gesture expressing respect, such as a bow or curtsy. (quoted online)

So, since the same Greek word can be translated as worship or hommage/Obeisance , who gets to decide when to write in a translation the word "WORSHIP" and when to write in the word "hommage" or (one of its synonyms)? in the bible(s) YOU use,

Rev 22:19, We may understand the word "worship" differently but I believe it's not good to change writings of the Bible to our likings.

Just HOW has anyone "changed the writings of the Bible"? There has merely been a discussion of the meaning of "worship." If men can be "worshipped," like people in high places, judges, kings, etc., why wouldn't it be fair to say that Jesus is "worshipped"? What does "worship" mean when being applied to men in superior positions? Are they being worshipped as God Almighty? No! Neither is Jesus to be worshipped as God Almighty.

And why Thayer's define "worship" in letter b definition as to God and the ascended Christ. It used "and" meaning for both or for the two that same kind of "worship" is rendered.

Yes, that is Thayer's definition;
NT:4352 proskuneoo, proskunoo;
a. of homage shown to men of superior rank: absolutely, Matt 20:20
b. of homage rendered to God and the ascended Christ, to heavenly beings, and to demons: John 4:20
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database)