The Missing Man

Exploring the details of Christianity

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melodious
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The Missing Man

Post #1

Post by melodious »

I'm sure it has been hashed out dozens of times on other threads, but I would like to "resurrect" the topic once again with a helpful outline as an introduction. Here I shall present an excerpt of the conclusive points out of chapter 7, "The Missing Man" from Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy's erudite thesis entitled "The Jesus Mysteries: Was the 'Original Jesus' a Pagan God?":-s

It is my belief that if you can prove that Jesus is not a historical person, you pretty well have the fundamentalist/literalist carnalizing, fetishizing, feverish Christians by the :yikes:... you get the picture. 8-)

Like countless scholars who have made this quest before us, we have found that looking for a historical Jesus is futile. It is astonishing that we have no substantial evidence for the historical existence of a man who is said to have been the one and only incarnation of God throughout all history. But the fact is we do not. So, what have we got?
  • > A few mentions of "Christians" and followers of someone called Crestus among all the extensive histories of the Romans

    > Some fake passages in Josephus among all the substantial histories of the Jews

    > A handful of passages from among the vast literature of the Talmud, which tell us that a man called Yeshu existed and had five disciples called "Mattai, Nakkia, Netzer, Buni, and Toadah"

    > Four anonymous gospels that do not even agree on the facts of Jesus' birth and death

    > A gospel attributed to Mark written somewhere between 70 and 135 CE, which is not even meant to be an eyewitness account and certainly isn't from its ignorance of Palestinian geography and the fact that it misquotes Hebrew scripture

    > Gospels attributed to Matthew and Luke, which are independently based on Mark and give entirely contradictory genealogies

    > A gospel attributed to John, which was written some time after the other three and certainly not by the disciple John

    > The names of 12 disciples for whom there is no historical evidence

    > The Acts of the Apostles, which reads like a fantasy novel, misquotes the Hebrew Old Testament, contradicts Paul's letters, and was not written until the second half of the second century

    > A selection of forged letters attributed to Peter, James, John, and Paul

    > A few genuine letters by Paul, which do not speak of a historical Jesus at all, but only of a mystical dying and resurrecting Christ

    > A lot of evidence which suggests that the New Testament is not a history of actual events, but a history of the evolution of Christian mythology

Maybe (if we realy want to believe it), something of this could (perhaps) be evidence of a historical Jesus. This cannot be ruled out. But the evidence that suggests that Jesus is a mythical figure is so compelling that we will need something far more substantial than any of this to undermine it.
- Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy from The Jesus Mysteries


Question for debate: Is Jesus a historical person or is he a mythical figure of a dying and resurrecting godman like Dionysus, Osiris/Horus, Attis, Serapis, Tammuz, Krishna, Prometheus, Mithra, etc.?
Now some of you may encounter the devils bargain if you get that far. Any old soul is worth saving at least to a priest, but not every soul is worth buying. So you can take the offer as a compliment.
- William S. Burroughs


There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over. - Frank Zappa

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Lotan
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Post #71

Post by Lotan »

Hi melodious,

Have you ever read the forum Debate Rules?

1. No personal attacks of any sort are allowed. Comments about another poster that are negative, condescending, frivolous or indicate in any way a lack of respect are not allowed.

7. Do not post frivolous, flame bait, or inflammatory messages.
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto His people. Exodus 32:14

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melodious
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Post #72

Post by melodious »

Lotan wrote:Hi melodious,

Have you ever read the forum Debate Rules?

1. No personal attacks of any sort are allowed. Comments about another poster that are negative, condescending, frivolous or indicate in any way a lack of respect are not allowed.

7. Do not post frivolous, flame bait, or inflammatory messages.
Oooooh, you cited the debate rules. Why don't you go whine to a moderator and in the mean time, find a sense of humor. Anyway, I figured you would be happy that you won, man. That is what you wanted, right - to win?

In the spirit of waking up and living life - M

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micatala
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Post #73

Post by micatala »

Moderator Warning
melodious wrote:
Lotan wrote:Hi melodious,

Have you ever read the forum Debate Rules?

1. No personal attacks of any sort are allowed. Comments about another poster that are negative, condescending, frivolous or indicate in any way a lack of respect are not allowed.

7. Do not post frivolous, flame bait, or inflammatory messages.
Oooooh, you cited the debate rules. Why don't you go whine to a moderator and in the mean time, find a sense of humor. Anyway, I figured you would be happy that you won, man. That is what you wanted, right - to win?

In the spirit of waking up and living life - M
As moderators, we tend to enforce the rules to the best of our ability whether anyone 'whines' to us or not. Both this post and even more so your last are clearly against the rules. Your last post was nothing but a long ad hominem tirade.

Consider this a formal warning.
" . . . the line separating good and evil passes, not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart . . . ." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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melodious
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Post #74

Post by melodious »

micatala wrote:Moderator Warning
melodious wrote:
Lotan wrote:Hi melodious,

Have you ever read the forum Debate Rules?

1. No personal attacks of any sort are allowed. Comments about another poster that are negative, condescending, frivolous or indicate in any way a lack of respect are not allowed.

7. Do not post frivolous, flame bait, or inflammatory messages.
Oooooh, you cited the debate rules. Why don't you go whine to a moderator and in the mean time, find a sense of humor. Anyway, I figured you would be happy that you won, man. That is what you wanted, right - to win?

In the spirit of waking up and living life - M
As moderators, we tend to enforce the rules to the best of our ability whether anyone 'whines' to us or not. Both this post and even more so your last are clearly against the rules. Your last post was nothing but a long ad hominem tirade.

Consider this a formal warning.
Warning well taken. Sorry, Lotan. I promise I wont do it again.

Carry on with the debate. Perhaps I might even get back in, present some real evidence for my view, and debate this issue full force, pulling no stops. So look out! My next post might just be the "smoking gun."

M

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melodious
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Post #75

Post by melodious »

Hey, where did everybody go? Did I say something?

So that's how you closeout a thread. A long ad hominem tirade followed by a moderator's warning followed by a feigned apology followed by... silence.

I love it. It was too easy.

M

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Cathar1950
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Post #76

Post by Cathar1950 »

melodious wrote:Hey, where did everybody go? Did I say something?

So that's how you closeout a thread. A long ad hominem tirade followed by a moderator's warning followed by a feigned apology followed by... silence.

I love it. It was too easy.

M
Some of us have other things to do like taking naps.
I also like to read and play Spore.

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