Did Jesus Really Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

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Did Jesus Really Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

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Question: Did Jesus Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

Christians today generally accept that nonbelievers will suffer eternally in the fires of hell for their sins. But if the wages of sin is eternity in hellfire, Jesus did not pay the penalty for our sins. He simply died! Where did we go wrong?

Both testaments of the Bible contain covenants or wills between man and God. The inheritance or reward under either covenant is eternal life. The path to eternal life under the Old Testament was obeying all of God's commandments. That is, you must never sin because the wages of sin is death. However, this meant that no man could inherit eternal life because all men sinned.

What if another person could serve the penalty for our sins? For this to occur that person could not already be under the same judgment. If you are already under a death sentence you cannot substitute your life for a friend who is also on death row. In addition, you must serve out his full sentence. Under the New Testament Jesus suffered our punishment of death so that we could inherit eternal life. The wages of sin is death, but He never sinned. Therefore, His life could be given for ours.

But if humans are born with immortal souls the punishment must be changed since the soul lives forever! The punishment for sinning can no longer be the second death as taught in the scriptures. Thus, it has been changed to eternal punishment in hellfire! But if that is the case Jesus Christ did not pay our penalty! Jesus should presently be burning in hell and should stay there for all eternity since this is the punishment mainstream Christianity assigns to mankind for sinning!

This concept that nonbelievers will burn alive in hellfire eternally and never die, trivializes the death of Jesus Christ! In comparison to what present day theology holds in store for one nonbeliever, Jesus' crucifixion on the cross is a mosquito bite! Being crucified daily for a thousand years is preferable to burning alive for eternity. The true punishment for your sin is the second death which is eternal. You never live again after suffering the second death. It is the death which is eternal not the act and torture of dying by fire!

Jesus did indeed serve our penalty and He was a valid sacrifice since He was innocent of any sin! We can now escape the second death and live forever thanks to His sacrifice. Jesus died a physical death as a human on the cross. Man's second and permanent death is also a physical death. Humans who fulfill the requirement of the New Testament covenant do not suffer the second death since their penalty for sinning has already been paid. That New Testament requirement for inheriting eternal life is believing in Jesus as your Savior:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Those believing in the immortal soul must interpret perish in John 3:16 to mean something other than death since their soul will never perish! One common erroneous interpretation is that it means "spiritual death" or "eternal separation from God." But if the penalty for sinning is eternal separation from God, then once again Jesus did not serve our punishment! Jesus is not separated from God! He is one third of the Trinity of God!

There are some topics in the Bible which are difficult to understand. This is not one of them! Jesus paid the price for our sins. What are the wages of our sinning? Death! What did Jesus do? He died on the cross. In fact, Jesus Christ is the only human to qualify for eternal life under the Old Testament. That is, the wages of sin is death but He never sinned, so He did not have to die. He laid down His life willingly.

The plan of salvation as designed by God is so incredibly simple! The wages of sin is death and all have sinned and are facing the second death. God sends His Son to earth as a human and Jesus lives a sinless life so He does not have to die. Therefore, He can lay down His life for ours. He willingly dies in our stead for our sins. Humans who accept Jesus as their Savior gain eternal life since Jesus has already paid the price for their sinning. Those who do not accept Jesus as their Savior must pay the penalty for their sinning which is perishing in the second death. The wages of sin is death.

However, man believes he is immortal due to use of the word "soul" in the King James Bible and Satan's lie that, "Ye shall not surely die." Man's new plan of salvation becomes extremely complicated as he designs myths to create new punishments for sinning. The true punishment of death as defined by God is no longer viable because man's "soul" lives forever and cannot die!

But no matter what mythical punishments men create to protect the immortal soul myth, none of them pass one simple and obvious test. Jesus Christ had to pay the full penalty for our sinning in order to become our Savior. He had to serve our full punishment. What did He do? He died! He died! Read it once again, He died! The wages of sin is death, and He died in our place. He is not burning in hell for eternity, He is not eternally separated from God, He did not have to write, "I will not sin" one trillion times, or any other ridiculous punishment! He died. Those who choose not to believe in Jesus must pay their own wages for sinning. Therefore, they die! Can this be any simpler?

If you are a Christian, you will have (future tense) eternal life! However, Christians believing the false theology of the immortal soul will be asked some embarrassing questions upon meeting Jesus face to face! How could they believe that Jesus, who created everything, would create a system whereby one individual would suffer pain and horror for eternity in the fires of hell? What part of "God is love," did they not understand? Here is our Savior who died that we might have eternal life. Yet, shortly after He departs the earth, most are convinced that all mankind is born with eternal life! Here is our Savior who taught nonviolence, turn the other cheek, love your enemies, do good to them that hurt you. Yet, shortly after His departure, most are convinced that His plan is for untold masses of humanity to suffer indescribable pain for eternity! If this was in His plan, why did He not mention it in detail while He was a human on earth? Granted, most of us were taught this false theology from birth. Even so, at some point when we began to reason on our own we should have seen the obvious flaw. Begin now to prepare your answers to these questions which will surely be asked!

Taken by permission from http://www.have-no-fear.com

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Post #71

Post by Greatest I Am »

We would all still be living in a paradise.[/quote]

Paradise is not a paradise without the knowledge of Good and Evil. Earth without, Heaven with.

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Post #72

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Greatest I Am wrote:Paradise is not a paradise without the knowledge of Good and Evil.
God declared each item He created in the Genesis recreation to be "good" after being created. Also, being in the presence of God is akin to paradise, and God was in the garden. Both of these events occurred before mankind gained the knowledge of good and evil! That's a radical thought that the Garden of Eden was not a paradise before man sinned by eating from the tree of knowledge. If you're unhappy with the original creation, I suggest you complain to the creator, God! I can't help you.
Greatest I Am wrote: Earth without, Heaven with.
I give up. What does that mean?

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Post #73

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myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:Paradise is not a paradise without the knowledge of Good and Evil.
God declared each item He created in the Genesis recreation to be "good" after being created. Also, being in the presence of God is akin to paradise, and God was in the garden. Both of these events occurred before mankind gained the knowledge of good and evil! That's a radical thought that the Garden of Eden was not a paradise before man sinned by eating from the tree of knowledge. If you're unhappy with the original creation, I suggest you complain to the creator, God! I can't help you.

GIA wrote
Yes it was good.
It took knowledge of good and evil to make it Perfect, as befits a creation of God. Not merely good.
It was not Perfect till Eve made the right and ate of it.
You are correct in saying that where God is is Heaven. The Bible also tells us that God is everywhere. That means we are presently in Heaven and that fits nicely with my contention that we are living in a Perfect environment for God's purposes.
Greatest I Am wrote: Earth without, Heaven with.
I give up. What does that mean?
I thought that was cute and clear.

Heaven is complete with the knowledge of good and evil.
Earth is perceived to be imperfect because we still do not know all of the knowledge of good and evil. Earth is Perfect for all of us to eat of it.
All of God's works are Perfect.


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Post #74

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Speaking about God's creation of the earth, Greatest I Am wrote:Yes it was good. It took knowledge of good and evil to make it Perfect, as befits a creation of God. Not merely good. It was not Perfect till Eve made the right and ate of it.
Yes, I understand now. God only created the earth as good, then man made it perfect by sinning! Wonderful. Yes, the scriptures indicate that man is much more intelligent than God, as man always knows a better way:
Proverbs 14:12 wrote:"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Greatest I Am wrote:All of God's works are Perfect.

You need to decide on one or the other! Above you are quoted as saying God created the earth only as good and Eve's sinning was required to make the earth "Perfect." But if God did not create the earth as perfect, then all of God's works are not perfect, since one of His works is the earth.
Greatest I Am wrote:You are correct in saying that where God is is Heaven. The Bible also tells us that God is everywhere. That means we are presently in Heaven and that fits nicely with my contention that we are living in a Perfect environment for God's purposes.
No, not only is the earth not heaven, it is not presently even included in the Kingdom of Heaven. Man's will is being done on earth, not God's. But when Jesus returns the earth will once again become part of the kingdom of the Lord:
Revelation 11:15 wrote:The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

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Post #75

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myth-one.com wrote:
Speaking about God's creation of the earth, Greatest I Am wrote:Yes it was good. It took knowledge of good and evil to make it Perfect, as befits a creation of God. Not merely good. It was not Perfect till Eve made the right and ate of it.
Yes, I understand now. God only created the earth as good, then man made it perfect by sinning! Wonderful. Yes, the scriptures indicate that man is much more intelligent than God, as man always knows a better way:
Proverbs 14:12 wrote:"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Greatest I Am wrote:All of God's works are Perfect.

You need to decide on one or the other! Above you are quoted as saying God created the earth only as good and Eve's sinning was required to make the earth "Perfect." But if God did not create the earth as perfect, then all of God's works are not perfect, since one of His works is the earth.
Greatest I Am wrote:You are correct in saying that where God is is Heaven. The Bible also tells us that God is everywhere. That means we are presently in Heaven and that fits nicely with my contention that we are living in a Perfect environment for God's purposes.
No, not only is the earth not heaven, it is not presently even included in the Kingdom of Heaven. Man's will is being done on earth, not God's. But when Jesus returns the earth will once again become part of the kingdom of the Lord:
Revelation 11:15 wrote:The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And we will live ever after with talking snakes and fish that spit men out after three days. I wonder if a fish would charge me for a ride to England.

Your imperfect God will be bested by my Perfect one at that time.
If all you can bring forth is a god that has lost control and has to come back again and again and again and ag................

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Post #76

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Greatest I Am wrote:And we will live ever after with talking snakes and fish that spit men out after three days. I wonder if a fish would charge me for a ride to England.

Your imperfect God will be bested by my Perfect one at that time.
If all you can bring forth is a god that has lost control and has to come back again and again and again and ag................
Once again, I really did not understand your comments. It could be just me! Did anyone out there understand the above quote?

twobitsmedia

Post #77

Post by twobitsmedia »

myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:And we will live ever after with talking snakes and fish that spit men out after three days. I wonder if a fish would charge me for a ride to England.

Your imperfect God will be bested by my Perfect one at that time.
If all you can bring forth is a god that has lost control and has to come back again and again and again and ag................
What in the &%#@)* are you babbling about? Did anyone understand that?
As a rule, his philosophy about God is based on whatever he feels at the moment, sometimes it is out of the Bible. Sometimes its from who knows where. The thoughts are often random. This is one of those kind of comments that I don't understand either.

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Post #78

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twobitsmedia wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:And we will live ever after with talking snakes and fish that spit men out after three days. I wonder if a fish would charge me for a ride to England.

Your imperfect God will be bested by my Perfect one at that time.
If all you can bring forth is a god that has lost control and has to come back again and again and again and ag................
What in the &%#@)* are you babbling about? Did anyone understand that?
As a rule, his philosophy about God is based on whatever he feels at the moment, sometimes it is out of the Bible. Sometimes its from who knows where. The thoughts are often random. This is one of those kind of comments that I don't understand either.
"No, not only is the earth not heaven, it is not presently even included in the Kingdom of Heaven. Man's will is being done on earth, not God's. But when Jesus returns the earth will once again become part of the kingdom of the Lord:"

Look at your words above.

You have earth in the kingdom one minute and not the next and then again when Jesus comes.
The kingdom of God never looses anything.
God owns all. He always has and always will. No back and forth.

If you can't understand that then I hope some one else does come to your aid.

Or maybe it is me. Huum.

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Post #79

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Greatest I Am wrote:The kingdom of God never looses anything.
God owns all. He always has and always will. No back and forth.
Let me muddy the waters even more for "Greatest I Am." Satan was given power over the earth before man was given dominion over it in the Genesis recreation. How do we know that Satan rules the earth? In the book of Luke, when Satan tempted Jesus for forty days in the desert, Satan offered his power over all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus if He would worship him:
Luke 4:5-7 wrote:And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
The above verses should require no explanation! But just in case someone needs help, here's what happened. The devil was tempting Jesus in the desert. Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain. They were on the earth at the time, so "the world" refers to the earth. Satan proposed to trade his powers over the earth to Jesus if Jesus would worship him (Satan). Satan reminded Jesus that this power had been given unto him and he could do with it as he pleased. Jesus did not question the devil's authority to give him power over the earth. He knew that Satan did indeed have control over the earth and could give or share this power with whomever he pleased. Jesus' immediate response was:
Luke 4:8 wrote:Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
If in the beginning God made and ruled over everything that was ever created, then He either delegated away or lost power over all the kingdoms of the earth. To believe otherwise, one cannot believe Luke 4:5-7 (which incidentally was inspired by God to be written). Therefore, there is some back and forth! Does everyone understand that?

Jesus will defeat Satan after His second coming and rule the earth forever with all born again believers. All nonbelievers will die the second death and that will be the end of them forever.
Greatest I Am wrote:If you can't understand that then I hope some one else does come to your aid.
Or maybe it is me. Huum.

It ain't you, Babe!

But have a nice day.

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Post #80

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Myth-one

Genesis states that God, after loosing the Perfection of Heaven, by creating rebellious angels, created earth with imperfect humans that screwed up the Perfect garden. Then God in His compassion pit’s the will of Eve against a supernatural snake who of course tempts her into sin. No contest.

The Bible also shows a God who, instead of noticing His mistake right away and adjusting/killing just a few in the beginning will wait and kill millions later. Why? For fun perhaps.

What bull.
Who would want to believe in such a looser of a God.

My Perfect God on the other hand simply gave us everything required to do His will.

We are told to multiply and learn of good and evil.
We are doing both nicely.

Satan does not rule the earth. Satan is a name for bad ideas and notions. He has no existence in our world. Neither do talking snakes and walking on water.

Those who read the Bible literally will likely never understand why the book was written and what it is saying.

Now to speak directly to your post.

It speaks of the temptation of Jesus/God. The question becomes can God be tempted.
I don’t know God that well to answer that but if Jesus was giving us the answer of no, then I can accept it without problems. One would think that when God was /if developing His philosophy, He would have known of all temptations. Further, Satan in offering a world to Jesus, was offering a poor second to the universe.

You also speak of the second death. I have just completed a dialog with a fundamentalist who is up to two deaths and three resurrections that we will be going through before going to Heaven or Hell.

God does not need to complicate His reality by treating souls like a yo yo after death with multiple deaths and multiple resurrections, including the resurrection of Jesus.

We are here to learn of good and evil. Then die and go to heaven. There is no Hell. If there were it would be a blemish to God’s universe and God does not do blemishes.
There is pleasure and pain at death but this pain is self imposed. For God to need to inflict pain on us would be admitting a failure on His part by the creation of a defective soul. God does not goof.

The Heaven that I know is non corporeal. I hope that there is a physical resurrection and logically we should be given a chance to practice what we have learned on a new earth but I have no proof of this.
I do know that God is busy in the production of new worlds and hope they are for us.

Even as I do not read the Bible literally and even as I give my interpretation from the point of view of a Perfect God I believe the Bible to be our best road map to Heaven and Jesus our best guide.

Try to give God more power as you read it and you will see a large difference in your perception of what is written.

Regards
DL

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