Why do people want to go to Heaven?

[Topaz27]

I don't want to go to heaven. As far as I can tell one of these situations must be true.

1) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. If I knew that was true I would feel bad. Therefore I feel bad in heaven. Heaven can contain suffering. But according to Rev 21:4 There is no suffering in heaven. So this idea doesn't make any sense according to the Bible.

2) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. But this time I'm ok/happy about it. In that senario there would be some kind of change in my emotion, which I'm not ok with. I'm not ok with the idea that "I know that people are burning in hell, and that's ok with me." That idea disgusts me. So I wouldn't want to go to that kind of heaven.

3) I go to heaven, and I'm not aware that people are burning in hell forever. That's not okay with me either. First off if I end up in heaven, and some of my dead loved ones aren't there, it's pretty obvious where they would be. So this idea doesn't really make sense. But let's say that God erases my memories about my loved ones. I would hate that. I don't want to go to that heaven.

4) I go to heaven I don't know about people burning in hell, but I still feel terrible. This obviously makes no sense with the premises of heaven, but it is technically a possibility.

Heaven is always described as this amazing place where God fixes everthing. But it just doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

So I was wondering why/if people wanted to go to heaven. Both thiests and athiests.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 58 by JehovahsWitness]

1. What is Gods Kingdom?
God's Israel.

2. In what sense did it "come" and when?
At the coming of the King... at the birth of Christ.

3. What will happen to finally bring about "God will" being done on earth?
The fullness of the Gentiles will be brought in, and then the partial hardening of Israel will be removed. In this way, all Israel will be saved. (Romans 11:25-26)

4. What changes will this (#3) bring into effect on earth for... a) humans b) animals?
There will be no more sin, and no more death.

Grace and peace to you, JW.

[PinSeeker]

Evangelicals do appear to agree with JWs on a literal and future millennium on earth, but then there is hardly any consensis at all on the many details.

Mmmm... I wouldn't say that. Even within the evangelical community, there are at least four views of the millennium. I myself fall into the a-millennial camp, which is not to say there is no millennium, but that we are in the midst -- and very possibly close to the end -- of the millennial reign of Christ from heaven. Other camps include pre-millennialism, post-millennialism, and preterism. Pre- and Post-millennialists do in fact believe in a future, literal 1000 year period -- either a literal reign of Christ in Jerusalem (pre-mill) or a peaceful Church age before Christ returns (post-mill). But these understand the Millennium of Revelation 20 wrongly. It is correctly understood to precede -- and come to a close at -- the return of Christ. Full preterists actually believe Christ has already returned (in 70 A.D.), that all the prophecies of Revelation have already been fulfilled, which is not the case. There are also what are called partial preterists; the partial preterist and a-millennial understandings of Revelation are at least somewhat closer together, but there are important differences between the two.

There's been much discussion about that topic in other recent threads. It's a very, very interesting subject. But really, we can all just say, "Jesus wins," and leave at that, I think... and probably should.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 72 by PinSeeker]


Checkpoint wrote:

Evangelicals do appear to agree with JWs on a literal and future millennium on earth, but then there is hardly any consensis at all on the many details.

Pinseeker wrote

Mmmm... I wouldn't say that. Even within the evangelical community, there are at least four views of the millennium.

The vast majority of Evangelicals are pre-miilennial, as I once was, and that is why I chose them in answer to JW, as JWs are also pre-millennial.

Pinseeker wrote

There's been much discussion about that topic in other recent threads. It's a very, very interesting subject. But really, we can all just say, "Jesus wins," and leave at that, I think... and probably should.

Probably, but if so we would cease from debating and absent ourselves from this site.

I don't think we should go that far unless we need a break for a while.

Maybe we could aim for something less, such as avoiding making hard and fast statements like these:

But these understand the Millennium of Revelation 20 wrongly. It is correctly understood to precede -- and come to a close at -- the return of Christ.

The Lord bless and keep you, Pinseeker.

[2timothy316]

They leave God...

Atheists don't leave God. They lack belief in god/gods of any kind. It's not complicated and yet many continue to misrepresent atheism.


Tcg

Some own up that they left God and some don't. Some try to convince themselves and others that they don't have a choice to believe in God. Like a person has a lack of wings to fly or gills to breath in water. Like they are somehow born without the ability. Factually the lack in belief is optional.

[PinSeeker]

The vast majority of Evangelicals are pre-miilennial, as I once was, and that is why I chose them in answer to JW, as JWs are also pre-millennial.

Well, the majority of western Christians, yes. Since about the mid-1800s.

There's been much discussion about that topic in other recent threads. It's a very, very interesting subject. But really, we can all just say, "Jesus wins," and leave at that, I think... and probably should.

Probably, but if so we would cease from debating and absent ourselves from this site. I don't think we should go that far unless we need a break for a while.

Hey, I'm always up for it.

Maybe we could aim for something less, such as avoiding making hard and fast statements like these:

But these understand the Millennium of Revelation 20 wrongly. It is correctly understood to precede -- and come to a close at -- the return of Christ.

Wrong is wrong. I'm not shying away from anything.

The Lord bless and keep you, Pinseeker.

To you also, Checkpoint.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 67 by tam]

Your idea is interesting. I long for the time when all these ideas will be proved true or false, when we know for sure what the reality will be.




.

[Purple Knight]

The idea that ordinary people are sent to hell is wrong...they are not ordinary even in a worldly situation. The one's damned are irretrievably dedicated to evil by their own free will and by their own free will they chose the consequences of their choice over heaven and cannot be dissuaded. Iow, only demons are banished to hell. Will you really miss them so much?

I will, because I have walked with demons and I have known them as people. We have laughed together, explored philosophy together, and cried together.

Perhaps I am one of them simply because I have known them as friends.

When I was in middle school, the only peer who was even the least bit nice to me was a neo-Nazi.

I wouldn't wish for even demons to suffer.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

You have in fact missed at least two that I can think of.

5) Your understanding and perspective changes such that you're comfortable with the punishment, but it is a natural transition that results purely from the expansion of your knowledge.

For example, if you see someone kill a man, you may believe the man killed was not deserving of that... until you find out that the killer only killed in self-defence. A punishment may go from undeserved to deserved in most peoples' eyes simply because of added information.

Admittedly, however, I cannot believe I would change my opinion and consider Hell to ever be deserved.

6) There is no Hell. Either everyone goes to Heaven or those who simply cannot exist there merely dissipate.

[brianbbs67]

The idea that ordinary people are sent to hell is wrong...they are not ordinary even in a worldly situation. The one's damned are irretrievably dedicated to evil by their own free will and by their own free will they chose the consequences of their choice over heaven and cannot be dissuaded. Iow, only demons are banished to hell. Will you really miss them so much?

I will, because I have walked with demons and I have known them as people. We have laughed together, explored philosophy together, and cried together.

Perhaps I am one of them simply because I have known them as friends.

When I was in middle school, the only peer who was even the least bit nice to me was a neo-Nazi.

I wouldn't wish for even demons to suffer.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

You have in fact missed at least two that I can think of.

5) Your understanding and perspective changes such that you're comfortable with the punishment, but it is a natural transition that results purely from the expansion of your knowledge.

For example, if you see someone kill a man, you may believe the man killed was not deserving of that... until you find out that the killer only killed in self-defence. A punishment may go from undeserved to deserved in most peoples' eyes simply because of added information.

Admittedly, however, I cannot believe I would change my opinion and consider Hell to ever be deserved.

6) There is no Hell. Either everyone goes to Heaven or those who simply cannot exist there merely dissipate.

everyone has had some of those friends. That's life. Don't let other people cloud your judgement. You know what is right or wrong. God does too.

[Purple Knight]

You know what is right or wrong.

I don't, actually.

[Checkpoint]

You know what is right or wrong.

I don't, actually.

Why don't you know right from wrong, then?

Do you know good from evil?