Is the prayer veiling commmanded in scripture?

[scottlittlefield17]

I believe that the prayer veiling or covering as some call it is required in scripture for all Christian women. I would like to hear your reasons why you don't think so and I will try to address them.

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

The word covered there is the Greek word katakaluptō which according to Strongs means to

cover wholly, that is, veil: - cover, hide.

The Greek word for head means the

the part most readily taken hold of

i.e. the hair.

[scottlittlefield17]

Wow did this ever get off topic since I was on here last!

[Benoni]

Im just using bible. You cant do that because it doesn't back you up.

Every thing I have said I backed wirh scripture. So what is your point.

[otseng]

First of all let us get down to basic scripture 101. I will be glad to back up my scriptural based opinion as we debate.

God is not calling the world now; He is only calling the firstfruits.

Hell is a religious Papal belief which is not even scriptural.

Man does not have a freewill to choose God; God forces man when it comes to salvation.

Have you ever heard of the Tabernacle of David? It is scriptural. Look it up.

Moderator warning:

Per rule 4:

4. Stay on the topic of debate. If a topic brings up another issue, start another thread.

Please do not derail the thread by getting into "basic scripture 101".

[arayhay]

Again we are not under the law be the law of Moses or the law of the NT; we are under grace.

H2580 khane; meaning is grace / favor.

if you took the time and searched the so called ot of the ASV you would see that this word is translated as favor between people, and, between God and man 93 times.

favor is not used in the KJV, but grace is used 39 times in both the KJV and 39 times in the ASV for the same Hebrew word; khane.

So I can tell you have not done your homework. And, try as you may to discern between grace and law, you will always come up with an uneducated, weak, misleading, poorly handled error that unwittingly pits the Bible against its-self, cloaked in some cause for liberty. But when one takes a closer look at the words and their meaning, they can easily see the lie that your presenting.

Grace is all over the Bible. From cover to cover. To place Grace only in the so called nt. Or only in the New Covenant is a self serving christian slap in God's face.

ASV Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
KJV Gen 6:8 But Noah H5146 found H4672 grace H2580 in the eyes H5869 of the LORD. H3068

To begin with the word law is a poor translation. When 'law' is used it obscures any clear understanding of what Paul is talking about. the word being translated is nomos. An inadequate Greek word that trys to convey the Hebrew word and concept; Torah. Torah in Hebrew means; instruction, teaching. This makes the statement you make above pitting law against grace is misguided in its premiss and application. The Torah / law was only given to man through Gods grace. he didn't have to converse with us. He din't have to teach and instruct us. He didn't have to explain what took place, what was happening at the time of some of the scriptures, or what would take place in the future.

BUT HE DID.

So i will close with this statement: if you are correct, it will ring as true as a bell.
But if I am correct, it will show how foolish your statement is.

Its a paraphrase of you position above.

WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER GOD'S TEACHING AND INSTRUCTION, BUT NOW WE ARE UNDER GRACE.

Your premiss that there is a conflict between grace and Torah, favor against teaching, falls flat.

you also should look up what Jesus says about lawlessness / Torah-lessness. Its not good.

[arayhay]

Define what you mean. Do you mean to say that to say to require obedience to that scripture would be legalism? And if so, why?

Very much so. I am not under the law; I am under grace.

The law is for spiritual children who need a baby sitter, and that goes for any NT law you need to follow.

Wherefore the law was our school-master to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:21-24).

A schoolmaster, (the Greek text gives, a child conductor), was one who held the child in restraint as they conducted the child from home to the school, making sure that there was no mischief along the way, and that the child arrived at the school. Then the child was given over to the care of the teacher, and the duty of the child conductor was ended. The child conductor did not stand in the back of the class room and continue to exercise control and authority over the child, for now the Teacher was in control, and there was to be no outside interference. So also, once we have been brought to Christ, and His anointing abides within us, we are to be led by the Spirit.

What school did they go to in the first century ? Harvard or Yale ? I think your Greek word has developed additional meaning since the time it was used. And this meaning does not apply. The other meanings strongs offers are tudor, instructor and schoolmaster. G3807

Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
ESV
Its mendacious to refer to scriptures meaning with an arrant understanding of what the text is meant to convey. ORIGINAL intent was and still is relevant today.

This approach to scripture is a half-witted and self serving method that uneducates.

First and foremost nomos does not mean law. It is refereing to Torah - instruction.

Secondly, Pahee-dag-o-g-s must be refereing to a home school situation.

Lastly; You've thrown out the Messiah with the law. "the law was our school-master to bring us unto Christ," Why wouldn't you want something that leads to Messiah ???????

God made ALL the covenants fit together in conjunction with each other, in harmony with one another. Outside of time. He did not make a mistake.

NONE of the covenants contradict another!

[arayhay]

Yes it does!(':shock:')

1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

There you go again. Now we should act like Muslim's? LAW, LAW, LAW... Hit me over my head with your Bible; this is not what the blood of Jesus has ackmoplished; it covers my sin totally. I do not need fear walking under the law and following it to the letter.

This is my point we are under grace, the blood of Jesus and you are trying to bring back the law of Moses to the NT. Paul in the Book of Corinthians was strongly under the influence of the Jewish Law during the early part of his ministry an obviously God allowed this kind of lie to appear in scripture for legalistic believers just like your self.

Grace and truth comes by Jesus Christ; the Law is our Childconductor..

Mat 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?"
Mat 19:17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."


Jesus must of been strongly under the influence of the Jewish law Himself.