When was Jesus first considered to be God?

[polonius]

Many misunderstand the term "son of God" to mean Jesus. But actually, "son of God" was a common expression in the Old Testament which did not mean divinity.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

In the Old Testament

The title "son of God" is frequent in the Old Testament. The word "son" was employed among the Semites to signify not only filiation, but other close connexion or intimate relationship.

Thus, "a son of strength" was a hero, a warrior, "son of wickedness" a wicked man, "sons of pride" wild beasts, "son of possession" a possessor, "son of pledging" a hostage, "son of lightning" a swift bird, "son of death" one doomed to death, "son of a bow" an arrow, "son of Belial" a wicked man, "sons of prophets" disciples of prophets etc.

The title "son of God" was applied in the Old Testament to persons having any special relationship with God. Angels, just and pious men, the descendants of Seth, were called "sons of God" (Job 1:6; 2:1; Psalm 89:7; Wisdom 2:13; etc.). In a similar manner it was given to Israelites (Deuteronomy 14:50); and of Israel, as a nation, we read: "And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn. I have said to thee: Let my son go, that he may serve me" (Exodus 4:22 sq.).

So when was it claimed that Jesus was actually divine?

[William]

[Replying to post 54 by 2timothy316]

I did a lot of research into the matter before I accepted there is a divine being.

There is far more to there being a divine being than limiting your research to the bible, based on the belief that the bible is the word of that supposed divine being.

I agree. Who said I limited it to the Bible only? Sounds like am I being stereotyped again. People are assuming I limited myself to only certain sources. They are wrong. The Bible was only one source and it was not the only one. Most of those I've met that accept that there is a higher being didn't just use the Bible as an only source to draw their conclusion. Most figure it out before they even read the Bible. It has been my experience that a person accepts there is a higher power first then start searching out who and what that higher power is and what they have to do with mankind.

I am keen to hear of the other resources you claim here to have utilized outside of the Bible and Christendom doctrines on the idea of GOD.

I think that the reader can judge for themselves whether this is really a case of 'stereotyping' or I am banging the nail on the head here.

It is of course one thing to think that there is a GOD and another to assume the GOD of the bible is that GOD, and that the bible is the 'word' of GOD.

Do you deny that you believe that the biblical GOD is the real GOD and that the bible is the word of that GOD?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 54 by 2timothy316]

I did a lot of research into the matter before I accepted there is a divine being.

There is far more to there being a divine being than limiting your research to the bible, based on the belief that the bible is the word of that supposed divine being.

I agree. Who said I limited it to the Bible only? Sounds like am I being stereotyped again. People are assuming I limited myself to only certain sources. They are wrong. The Bible was only one source and it was not the only one. Most of those I've met that accept that there is a higher being didn't just use the Bible as an only source to draw their conclusion. Most figure it out before they even read the Bible. It has been my experience that a person accepts there is a higher power first then start searching out who and what that higher power is and what they have to do with mankind.

I am keen to hear of the other resources you claim here to have utilized outside of the Bible and Christendom doctrines on the idea of GOD.

Good for you.

I think that the reader can judge for themselves whether this is really a case of 'stereotyping' or I am banging the nail on the head here.

You're not. Your stereotyping of me is a swing and a miss.

It is of course one thing to think that there is a GOD and another to assume the GOD of the bible is that GOD, and that the bible is the 'word' of GOD.

Who said I merely assumed? I spent years examining the Bible before I fully trusted it to be the Word of God. I discovered a great deal of evidence that I couldn't ignore. I am still finding evidence even now years later. Once I started studying the Bible I never stopped.

Do you deny that you believe that the biblical GOD is the real GOD and that the bible is the word of that GOD?

I do not deny that. Yet I didn't wake up one day and simply accept that like it was claimed we believers in God do in post 53. You make it sound like examining the Bible to see if it is the Word of God is a bad thing.

[William]

[Replying to post 62 by 2timothy316]

Good for you.

Yes.

However, that is besides the point. Do you have such a list of resources outside the bible and Christendom to which you can share to substantiate your protest that I have missed the mark regarding this about you?

Precisely what 'research into the matter' did you do before you accepted there is a divine being? You don't have to go into any detail. Just a concise list of steps will suffice.

You're not. Your stereotyping of me is a swing and a miss.

So you claim. But really, the reader can tell if one is being honest or cagey. Rather than play the victim role by complaining I am [attempting to] 'stereotype' you, stand up and let your works be counted that you words are shown to have truth in them.

I spent years examining the Bible before I fully trusted it to be the Word of God.

All this tells the reader is that you developed a trust in something being something. Why did it take so long for this trust to develop?
What is it about the bible that involves the need for you to trust in it as being 'The Word of GOD'?
What things outside of the bible acted as resources which helped develop that trust?

You say you trust, but this implies that you really don't know for sure. If you don't know for sure, then you really shouldn't be claiming it as fact.
If you are not claiming it as fact, then it is best to use words which actually convey that....such as "I do not know that the bible is the word of GOD, but I choose to believe that it is and put my faith in that."

I discovered a great deal of evidence that I couldn't ignore. I am still finding evidence even now years later. Once I started studying the Bible I never stopped.

What 'evidence' and how can you be sure that this 'evidence' hasn't been framed to suit your personality type?

What things outside of and even contradictory to biblical writ (which is contradictory itself) can you tell the reader that you studied as well?

What did you use to gauge the truth of the matter?

If you left the organised religion you currently support and stopped believing that the bible was the word of GOD, would you be able to continue having a relationship with GOD?

I do not deny that. Yet I didn't wake up one day and simply accept that like it was claimed we believers in God do in post 53.

Specifically that is why I chimed in here. I am interested in the details to do with your progression into believing the bible is the word of GOD.

You make it sound like examining the Bible to see if it is the Word of God is a bad thing.

Not I. Christendom is the one which plays that role. Certainly actions counted as specifically GODs are questionable. Certainly it is undeniable that organisations such as the Jehovah's Witnesses argue that the actions attributed to this idea of GOD are truly legitimate actions of benevolence. Obviously believing that the bible is the Word of God contributes to this understanding, so it is only pertinent for the individual to question the validity of the claim as well as the ethics of those who claim such.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 63 by William]

What does this all have to do with 'When was Jesus first considered to be God'?

Do you know what type of topics are for this forum?

The purpose of this subforum is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority. Responses to topics with "but first you have to prove that the Bible is true" is not allowed here.

viewtopic.php?t=3168

I post in this subforum specifically so I don't have to deal with fruitless discussions with questions like "What 'evidence' and how can you be sure that this 'evidence' hasn't been framed to suit your personality type?" I feel no need to reply as such a question doesn't suit the purpose of this forum. All that needs to be said is that I examined the Bible and found it to be truthworthy. Why and how is for another forum that if I wanted to discuss that, then I'd be in that forum. I like to have discussions with people that are past 'give me your evidence the Bible is the Word of God' questions. The C&A forum is better suited for your type of debates.

[William]

[Replying to post 64 by 2timothy316]

Why and how is for another forum that if I wanted to discuss that, then I'd be in that forum.

Well there is the opportunity to discuss it if you want to.

Why do you believe the bible is 'the word of GOD'?
Debating the pros and cons of this belief.

If not then certainly I can conclude that your particular claims about the bible and other unnamed resources are nothing more than hearsay and that my questions to you regarding your particular beliefs are not answered because they expose a truth which you do not currently wish to face, and that is why Christians stay in this forum because it is a safe place where the bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 65 by William]

You're free to conclude whatever you wish. Those conclusions were never going to be displaced. I don't try to convince people that the Bible is the Word of God anymore. John 6:44 tells me if a person is not drawn to God then there is no point in trying to do it myself. It is impossible for a person that believes 'only what they can see' or that proof must be presented by another person to be drawn in by the Almighty God and His Word. (1 Corinthians 2:14-16.) Be well.