Anti-discrimination laws and gay rights.

[Autodidact]

Should religious organizations and individuals be allowed to discriminate against same-sex couples and gay people, when they believe it violates their religion?

For example, in New York, some town clerks refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples legally entitled to marry. Should they be allowed to so and keep their jobs?

If a religious social service agency, such as an adoption agency, refuses to place children with same-sex couples, should they be allowed to receive public funding?

What about public accommodations and businesses; should they be allowed to discriminate against gay couples? For example, should an owner of a hotel be able to refuse to rent a room to a gay couple? What if the facility is owned by a church, does that make a difference? For example, if a church owns a hall they rent out to the public, should they be able to refuse to rent it to a gay couple to celebrate their marriage? What is your view, and why?

[Lux]

Moderator Intervention

Just a small reminder, lets avoid going on a tangent here. This topic is not about Planned Parenthood or abortion, so please do not make any more off-topic posts here. As always, you're all free to start a new topic if you wish to discuss a new issue.






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Moderator interventions do not count as a strike against any posters. They are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels that some sort of intervention is required.

[Autodidact]

But you do have absolute control over what you do about that. I don't know of any group of people, besides homosexuals, who have laws protecting them because of what they CHOOSE to do.

Other than every religious believer in the United States, you mean?

In any case, my behavior is within my control; being a lesbian is not. I am a lesbian whether I ever have sex again in my life, and whether I'm in a relationship or not. Just like you're heterosexual regardless of whether you ever have sex or are in a relationship again.

....and?

Unlike stuff like race, accent and EVERY OTHER PROTECTED CLASS, your lesbianism becomes a problem only when you ACT upon it. Not who you are, but what you DO.

What? In what way does my acting on my lesbianism become a problem? My being a lesbian, being in a loving relationship with another woman, doesn't cause anyone a problem, period.

It becomes a problem FOR YOU when you come up against discrimination that you feel is unwarranted and unfair, for one thing.

the problem isn't my actions, then, but someone else's.

Is that fair? Probably not...but it's also true.

Unlike stuff like race, accent, and EVERY OTHER PROTECTED CLASS, your religion becomes a problem only when you ACT upon it. Not who you are, but what you DO.

This is true, actually. I can change my religion. I can change what I do about it. You will notice, though, that I don't believe I can force a photographer to shoot my wedding reception if she doesn't happen to LIKE what I do about it.

Didn't you say that you thought businesses should NOT be able to discriminate against Mormons?

(shrug) Because of that, it raises a few questions about what your choices force upon the choices of others. Doesn't it?

Say what?

Do you think people should have the right to refuse service to Mormons?

Yeah, actually, I do. I believe I mentioned that in other posts. If I come into their restaurant and order a meal that they will serve everybody ELSE, and they refuse me simply because I am LDS, that's a problem.

You just contradicted yourself. You said they should have that right, but that's a problem. I'm confused.

Perhaps you should consider joining the 'reads the entire post' group. This is explained.

I did. It contradicted itself. That's the problem.

But unlike every other protected class, being a Mormon is a choice that you make, and whether you act on that choice is completely up to you. Why should that be protected?

Check your history. It doesn't seem to be.

are you claiming that U.S. law allows discrimination based on religion? Seriously? Because it doesn't.

However, if they decide that they won't cater my wedding reception because they don't think MOrmons are Christians and they won't cater an event that doesn't include a wet bar with booze, well then....that's their choice.

What if they rent out a hall for every sort of wedding--except a wedding between two Mormons?

Renting out a hall....that's like the restaurant. If they rent it to weddings, they can't refuse it to a wedding just because they don't like the people getting married

. What if a church owns the hall?

[Autodidact]

Does this include laws that prohibit public accomodations in the south from refusing to serve African-Americans?

I did say private businesses, which obviously does not include public services.

What is a "private business" and how is it different than a public service?