More proof that fox news misleads its readers.

[nygreenguy]

Those who watched Fox News almost daily were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (12 points more likely), most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points), the economy is getting worse (26 points), most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points), the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points), their own income taxes have gone up (14 points), the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points), when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points) and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points). The effect was also not simply a function of partisan bias, as people who voted Democratic and watched Fox News were also more likely to have such misinformation than those who did not watch it--though by a lesser margin than those who voted Republican.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... nt=671&lb=


A breakdown of the lies:

* 91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs
* 72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit
* 72 percent believe the economy is getting worse
* 60 percent believe climate change is not occurring
* 49 percent believe income taxes have gone up
* 63 percent believe the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
* 56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
* 38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP
* 63 percent believe Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear)

http://www.alternet.org/media/149193/st ... age=entire

So why does fox news exist if it clearly does a poor job of reporting the facts? Could it be that people care more about hearing what they want to hear vs. what is actually happening?

[Board]

You're comparing what two FOX news analysts say with an NPR reporter. The fact remains, Juan was fired for doing nothing more than stating the obvious which apparently upset the PC-police, Nina was not fired for saying something much worse. It would be as if FOX fired a liberal for saying something outrageous but didn't fire a conservative for saying something more outrageous.

So you are choosing not to address the rest of my post? noted...

I do not disagree with the Nina issue. If it were me in charge and I heard someone say that on the air I would have fired them. I would also have fired Beck and O'Reilly for their antics.

Lies, deceit, and hate-speech have no place in the media.

However, for you to claim that NPR is somehow worse than FOX is completely unfounded and again I challenge you to show that this is the case.

[East of Eden]

You're comparing what two FOX news analysts say with an NPR reporter. The fact remains, Juan was fired for doing nothing more than stating the obvious which apparently upset the PC-police, Nina was not fired for saying something much worse. It would be as if FOX fired a liberal for saying something outrageous but didn't fire a conservative for saying something more outrageous.

So you are choosing not to address the rest of my post? noted...

I do not disagree with the Nina issue. If it were me in charge and I heard someone say that on the air I would have fired them. I would also have fired Beck and O'Reilly for their antics.

Lies, deceit, and hate-speech have no place in the media.

All media outlets get out of hand from time to time. Keith Olbermann IMHO was the worst but at least was fired. I don't see a way around it with our freedom of speech. Much of what I hear on this forum as lies is really an honest difference of opinion.

However, for you to claim that NPR is somehow worse than FOX is completely unfounded and again I challenge you to show that this is the case.

If you don't think they are biased towards the left why is George Soros giving them millions?

[Board]

All media outlets get out of hand from time to time.

agreed.

Keith Olbermann IMHO was the worst but at least was fired.

We are all well aware of your opinion on the liberal left...

I don't see a way around it with our freedom of speech. Much of what I hear on this forum as lies is really an honest difference of opinion.

Lies are completely different than a simple difference of opinion. You can present and argue different opinions without intentionally lying to support your claims. Should freedom of speech stand for freedom to lie and be deceitful and sway millions of Americans' opinions through such detestable tactics?

If you don't think they are biased towards the left why is George Soros giving them millions?

Where in anything that I said did I claim that NPR was not biased? Let me state my challenge again for you... for the third time.

Care to attempt to show that there is a way to compare and contrast levels of bias and that they (NPR) are more bias than FOX?

However, for you to claim that NPR is somehow worse than FOX is completely unfounded and again I challenge you to show that this is the case.

so makes this the third challenge for you to support your claim that NPR is more bias to the left than FOX is bias to the right.

[East of Eden]

Lies are completely different than a simple difference of opinion. You can present and argue different opinions without intentionally lying to support your claims.

You, or me, have no way of knowing what goes on in someone's head to be able to say they lied. The constant use of the word 'lie' is what poisons the political atmosphere. Demonizing your opponent seems to be a standard tactic of the left. For instance, on the list of FOX 'lies' it says Obamacare will increase the deficit. That isn't a lie, it is a sincerely held belief held by many, me included. Unless someone claims to be able to accurately predict the future, there is no way to definitavely say it isn't true. It may or may not be, time will tell.

Where in anything that I said did I claim that NPR was not biased? Let me state my challenge again for you... for the third time.

"Care to attempt to show that there is a way to compare and contrast levels of bias and that they (NPR) are more bias than FOX?"

so makes this the third challenge for you to support your claim that NPR is more bias to the left than FOX is bias to the right.

That is my opinion, just as it is yours that FOX is biased. Yes, Hannity is biased, but at least he admits it. O'Reilly I would describe as center/right, which is pretty much where the country is. I don't consider their news broadcasts biased, or if they are, it is much less than the MSM. Do you deny Nina Totenberg is biased to the left?

[Board]

You, or me, have no way of knowing what goes on in someone's head to be able to say they lied. The constant use of the word 'lie' is what poisons the political atmosphere. Demonizing your opponent seems to be a standard tactic of the left.

In the above quote you do quite an amazing thing.

First you claim that there is no way to determine if someone lies. I disagree. Everyone makes mistakes and people who do, retract their statements and go on to present the truth. If someone in the media continues to present false information and imagery to promote their view then they can indeed be labeled a liar.

Next you claim that the term "lie" poisons the well of politics. I do not believe it does. We need to be honest about tactics used by politicians and if someone is spreading falsehoods then they need to be called out.

Lastly, and this is the amazing part... you are demonizing the left for allegedly demonizing their opponents. Pot, meet kettle.

That is my opinion, just as it is yours that FOX is biased. Yes, Hannity is biased, but at least he admits it. O'Reilly I would describe as center/right, which is pretty much where the country is. I don't consider their news broadcasts biased, or if they are, it is much less than the MSM. Do you deny Nina Totenberg is biased to the left?

I never stated my opinion on Nina one way or the other. What do I have to deny? I can't say that I have ever listened to any of her stories so I cannot pass judgement on levels of bias. My NPR time is limited to my commute which is usually Marketplace (APM) and Morning edition on the way in and All Things Considered on my way home... and the occasional Car Talk on the weekend because those guys crack me up...

I can honestly say very few of the stories I hear contain any bias at all. Granted I am not a listener to any of their more opinionated programs.

Now, are you denying that FOX is biased to the right?

[East of Eden]

In the above quote you do quite an amazing thing.

First you claim that there is no way to determine if someone lies. I disagree. Everyone makes mistakes and people who do, retract their statements and go on to present the truth. If someone in the media continues to present false information and imagery to promote their view then they can indeed be labeled a liar.

Next you claim that the term "lie" poisons the well of politics. I do not believe it does. We need to be honest about tactics used by politicians and if someone is spreading falsehoods then they need to be called out.

Lastly, and this is the amazing part... you are demonizing the left for allegedly demonizing their opponents.

Yes, it's rigtht out of the Saul Alinsky playbook.

I never stated my opinion on Nina one way or the other. What do I have to deny?

Her liberal bias. Apparently only conservative bias is wrong to you.

I can't say that I have ever listened to any of her stories so I cannot pass judgement on levels of bias. My NPR time is limited to my commute which is usually Marketplace (APM) and Morning edition on the way in and All Things Considered on my way home... and the occasional Car Talk on the weekend because those guys crack me up...

I listen to those also, I just don't get why they get public money.

I can honestly say very few of the stories I hear contain any bias at all. Granted I am not a listener to any of their more opinionated programs.

Here's what Wikipedia notes of their anti-Isreal bias, which was confirmed by the recent tape of Schiller during his lunch where he though he would be getting money from the Muslim Brotherhood:

"NPR has been criticised for perceived bias in its coverage of Israel.[31][32][33][34] The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), a pro-Israel American media monitoring organization based in Boston, has been particularly critical of NPR. CAMERA director Andrea Levin has stated, "We consider NPR to be the most seriously biased mainstream media outlet," a statement that The Boston Globe describes as having "clearly gotten under her target's skin."[34] NPR's then-Ombudsman, Jeffrey A. Dvorkin, said in a 2002 interview that CAMERA used selective citations and subjective definitions of what it considers pro-Palestinian bias in formulating its findings, and that he felt CAMERA's campaign was "a kind of McCarthyism, frankly, that bashes us and causes people to question our commitment to doing this story fairly. And it exacerbates the legitimate anxieties of many in the Jewish community about the survival of Israel."[35]

Now, are you denying that FOX is biased to the right?

I've already told you my opinions of Hannity and O'Reilly. Which other FOX programs are you referring to? It's interesting that FOX has a far greater range of opinion than the biased liberal MSM, often having guests such as Alan Colmes, Bob Beckel, Marc Lamont Hill, etc.

Go ahead and rag on FOX all you want, they are only getting bigger. I remember as a kid the only media conservative opinion you could get was Paul Harvey and an hour of 'Firing Line' every Sunday. Those days aren't coming back. The liberal hysterical reaction at their former monopoly disapearing is like it was watching the Politburo react to the end of the Soviet empire.

[Board]

Her liberal bias. Apparently only conservative bias is wrong to you.

Every time we go back and forth you place words in my mouth. Stop it.

I just told you I have never listened to her... so how then am I supposed to pass judgement? Jump to conclusions without all the facts? No thank you. I'll leave that to the politicians.

I listen to those also, I just don't get why they get public money.

On this we agree and the only thing I take issue with on dropping funding is the fallout it will have on local stations which I noted earlier and you failed to respond to.

Here's what Wikipedia notes of their anti-Isreal bias, which was confirmed by the recent tape of Schiller during his lunch where he though he would be getting money from the Muslim Brotherhood:

"NPR has been criticised for perceived bias in its coverage of Israel.[31][32][33][34] The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), a pro-Israel American media monitoring organization based in Boston, has been particularly critical of NPR. CAMERA director Andrea Levin has stated, "We consider NPR to be the most seriously biased mainstream media outlet," a statement that The Boston Globe describes as having "clearly gotten under her target's skin."[34] NPR's then-Ombudsman, Jeffrey A. Dvorkin, said in a 2002 interview that CAMERA used selective citations and subjective definitions of what it considers pro-Palestinian bias in formulating its findings, and that he felt CAMERA's campaign was "a kind of McCarthyism, frankly, that bashes us and causes people to question our commitment to doing this story fairly. And it exacerbates the legitimate anxieties of many in the Jewish community about the survival of Israel."[35]

If you mean the $5million they repeatedly turned down from the entrapment operation set up by a right wing extremist then sure... go right ahead and assume the worst. Can you honestly say CAMERA has no bias in this debate either?

I've already told you my opinions of Hannity and O'Reilly. Which other FOX programs are you referring to? It's interesting that FOX has a far greater range of opinion than the biased liberal MSM, often having guests such as Alan Colmes, Bob Beckel, Marc Lamont Hill, etc.

Go ahead and rag on FOX all you want, they are only getting bigger. I remember as a kid the only media conservative opinion you could get was Paul Harvey and an hour of 'Firing Line' every Sunday. Those days aren't coming back. The liberal hysterical reaction at their former monopoly disapearing is like it was watching the Politburo react to the end of the Soviet empire.

When did we jump to MSM? I thought we were discussing NPR and FOX? I don't watch MSM so i have no comment on their programs.

Does FOX have a range of opinion? Please demonstrate it.

also...

Go ahead and rag on FOX all you want, they are only getting bigger.

Argumentum ad populum

[Wyvern]

Strangely enough Canada has a standard of truth for broadcasters if they want to call it news,

Yes, it has to be sufficiently biased to the left. It is entertaining to see the left justify censorship. Fear of competition is part of it to. No doubt they are afraid up there that FOX would totally dominate the ratings as they do here.

Funny thing about the truth EoE there's only one for any issue and it aint biased unless you think reality is biased. Wow it's like you think this law in Canada was enacted specifically because of Fox. Umm EoE Fox is just the biggest of the cable news channels it is dwarfed by the ratings any of the three big broadcast news programs get. BTW it is not censorship to require something that calls itself news to tell the truth, if you want to be free to say whatever you want you can but you can't call it news.

[East of Eden]

Her liberal bias. Apparently only conservative bias is wrong to you.

Every time we go back and forth you place words in my mouth. Stop it.

I just told you I have never listened to her... so how then am I supposed to pass judgement? Jump to conclusions without all the facts? No thank you. I'll leave that to the politicians.

So butt out of the NPR discussion or do some research on her.

On this we agree and the only thing I take issue with on dropping funding is the fallout it will have on local stations which I noted earlier and you failed to respond to.

Who cares about the local stations. Let them compete on an equal footing with the rest of the media.

If you mean the $5million they repeatedly turned down from the entrapment operation set up by a right wing extremist then sure... go right ahead and assume the worst. Can you honestly say CAMERA has no bias in this debate either?

You're completely ignoring what the left-wing extremist NPR guy said on the tape.

Does FOX have a range of opinion? Please demonstrate it.

I already did. Even Hannity and O'Reilly have liberals on about every show.

Argumentum ad populum

I'm just wondering what you guys are trying to accomplish with all the constant attacks on FOX? Where's the tolerance? I dislike certain MSM outlets but I don't start threads all the time dumping on them.

[micatala]

There is also evidence that fox isnt a news network, rather a political extension of the republican party.

As I would say of much of the MSM, who are simply liberal Democrats masquerading as journalists. They aren't pleased their monopoly is gone.

Talking point memos from republican politicians to fox news have been intercepted and their contents are repeated verbatim on the air.

You mean like this NPR exec caught making Democratic talking points?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/caught- ... ctual-gop/

At least FOX isn't taking taxpayer money as NPR is, for now.

Once again, this is conflating bias or ideology with factuality. FOX has been documented to blatantly lie. So far, nothing approaching the lies told on FOX have been documented by the "MSM" or even MSNBC and certainly not NPR.


Bias does not equal a lack of factuality, no matter how many times people on this thread conflate the two.