Was I a true Christian?

[OnceConvinced]

I was brought up in a Christian home, having been taught Christianity and its virtues from birth. I believed it by default. My parents were genuine Christians, believing it was their job to teach me the ways of the lord. They lived the Christian life. One of the things I have always respected them for was that they way they were at Church was no different to the way they were at home. I saw them as good Christian role models and I believe that is part of the reason why I followed in their footsteps.

I officially became born again at the age of 7. I always tried hard to emulate Jesus, following his teachings, taking his advice. At the age of 16 I went into ministry for the first time, as a leader at kids camps. My church pastor recommended me and I was being called “Uncle Richard” by kids only 6 years younger than me. This was definitely not a pride thing. I felt privileged to be able to do something for God. I always welcomed opportunities to do things for God.

My life as a Christian, was simple. I believed Jesus to be the son of God. I had absolute faith that Jesus was who he said he was. I strived to be like him. I prayed regularly, read my bible and studied. I believed the bible to be the infallible word of God. I regularly put my life right with him, asking for forgiveness when I felt I needed to. I attended church most Sundays, and often evenings. I attended cell groups. I helped people when I could who needed it.

When I left home, I continued to follow Christ, eager to be involved in ministry, eager to worship and praise him. I was put in leadership roles, trusted and respected. But please don’t think I am trying to blow my own trumpet. I am just telling you this because I want you to see that there were many people who believed me to be a true Christian. Even non-Christians did not question my integrity. – apart from one when I was about 19 who criticized me for swearing occasionally, telling a few crude jokes and for once wearing a shirt with dragons on it.

I made no secrets of the fact I was a Christian. I loved to talk about the lord. I always attempted to set an example.

I was never a fan of religion. I never approved of churches like the catholic church which focused on a lot of religious ritual. I chose to go to churches where religion was generally looked down upon. I believed I had a “relationship with God”.

I have always strived to better myself. To be more like Christ.

Of course a couple of years ago, I left the faith (that’s another story)

There are many Christians I have come across on-line, including some here, who although they know little (or nothing at all) of my background, insist I was never a true Christian – or insinuate it. Some are quite judgemental about it. Some try to be polite about it. I know I shouldn’t let it bother me, But I served the lord genuinely for over 30 years. I know I did what was expect of me as a Christian. I put my heart and soul into it. I wasn’t perfect by any means, but no Christian is.

So my questions:

Based on what I’ve told you here…

Was I a true Christian? If not, why not? Where do you think I went wrong?'

BTW, I'm happy to elaborate on any issues if you wish to ask questions.

[Jester]

Wow a tough question...

I know I haven't responded (because I don't think I have much in the way of intelligent commentary to add), but I did want to comment that your advice did help a great deal.

So, thanks.

[simple]

So my questions:

Based on what I�ve told you here�

Was I a true Christian?

BTW, I'm happy to elaborate on any issues if you wish to ask questions.

Hello,

I just responded to your poll and answered: Yes.

You followed Jesus' teachings as best you could and tried to emulate him. To me, that made you a Christian. Plus, you defined yourself as a Christian. No one, I think, has the right to deny another their free will choice to define themselves as they see fit. So, that's another reason for saying you were a Christian.

That you now choose to not self define as a Christian is, to me, an important step as it frees you to question and seek... as Jesus instructed: first seek His kingdom and righteousness and all these things will be added to you.

I have noticed that this path of Christianity can encompass many different lines of thinking for each individual. I've been through some pretty extreme differences myself.

I read this thread last night and I think I saw mention of a 'born again experience' that you had. Since you offered to elaborate on any issues, I am curious what this experience entailed. When it happened, how you were changed, if any, and that sort of thing.

Thanking you in advance.

[OnceConvinced]

Hello,

I just responded to your poll and answered: Yes.

You followed Jesus' teachings as best you could and tried to emulate him. To me, that made you a Christian. Plus, you defined yourself as a Christian. No one, I think, has the right to deny another their free will choice to define themselves as they see fit. So, that's another reason for saying you were a Christian.

That you now choose to not self define as a Christian is, to me, an important step as it frees you to question and seek... as Jesus instructed: first seek His kingdom and righteousness and all these things will be added to you.

I have noticed that this path of Christianity can encompass many different lines of thinking for each individual. I've been through some pretty extreme differences myself.

I read this thread last night and I think I saw mention of a 'born again experience' that you had. Since you offered to elaborate on any issues, I am curious what this experience entailed. When it happened, how you were changed, if any, and that sort of thing.

Thanking you in advance.

Hi simple, welcome to the site and thanks for your comments.

The thing is it happened a long time ago, when I was seven years old. Going by what I have seen all the time through my life it was a matter of genuinely praying the sinner's prayer and repenting. Once you repent you are "born again", a new creation in the eyes of God. I don't recall me changing as a person dramatically in any way, but then again I was a good kid anyway who always tried to do the right thing based on what my parents and my teachers had taught me.

I remember better being baptised at the age of 16 and feeling a sense of euphoria after I came up out of the water. It felt good. I now figure it was the atmosphere and the physical sensation that accomplished that. I remember for weeks afterwards feeling that I was a new person and really trying hard not to give into the sins that I often committed. But then I soon got back into my old routines again. Pretty standard, or so I am led to believe from other Christians who I've come across.

[justifyothers]

I was brought up in a Christian home, having been taught Christianity and its virtues from birth. I believed it by default. My parents were genuine Christians, believing it was their job to teach me the ways of the lord. They lived the Christian life. One of the things I have always respected them for was that they way they were at Church was no different to the way they were at home. I saw them as good Christian role models and I believe that is part of the reason why I followed in their footsteps.

I officially became born again at the age of 7. I always tried hard to emulate Jesus, following his teachings, taking his advice. At the age of 16 I went into ministry for the first time, as a leader at kids camps. My church pastor recommended me and I was being called �Uncle Richard� by kids only 6 years younger than me. This was definitely not a pride thing. I felt privileged to be able to do something for God. I always welcomed opportunities to do things for God.

My life as a Christian, was simple. I believed Jesus to be the son of God. I had absolute faith that Jesus was who he said he was. I strived to be like him. I prayed regularly, read my bible and studied. I believed the bible to be the infallible word of God. I regularly put my life right with him, asking for forgiveness when I felt I needed to. I attended church most Sundays, and often evenings. I attended cell groups. I helped people when I could who needed it.

When I left home, I continued to follow Christ, eager to be involved in ministry, eager to worship and praise him. I was put in leadership roles, trusted and respected. But please don�t think I am trying to blow my own trumpet. I am just telling you this because I want you to see that there were many people who believed me to be a true Christian. Even non-Christians did not question my integrity. � apart from one when I was about 19 who criticized me for swearing occasionally, telling a few crude jokes and for once wearing a shirt with dragons on it.

I made no secrets of the fact I was a Christian. I loved to talk about the lord. I always attempted to set an example.

I was never a fan of religion. I never approved of churches like the catholic church which focused on a lot of religious ritual. I chose to go to churches where religion was generally looked down upon. I believed I had a �relationship with God�.

I have always strived to better myself. To be more like Christ.

Of course a couple of years ago, I left the faith (that�s another story)

There are many Christians I have come across on-line, including some here, who although they know little (or nothing at all) of my background, insist I was never a true Christian � or insinuate it. Some are quite judgemental about it. Some try to be polite about it. I know I shouldn�t let it bother me, But I served the lord genuinely for over 30 years. I know I did what was expect of me as a Christian. I put my heart and soul into it. I wasn�t perfect by any means, but no Christian is.

So my questions:

Based on what I�ve told you here�

Was I a true Christian? If not, why not? Where do you think I went wrong?'

BTW, I'm happy to elaborate on any issues if you wish to ask questions.

From what you have said here, you sound pretty textbook. No problems in your religious adherance. My question is: so what? It has been my experience that christianity is like ALL religions.

Sure - you prayed. (ritual)
Sure you tithed. (ritual)
Sure. You felt the holy spirit (emotions fed by other religionists)
Sure. You sang praises (ritual)
Sure. You gave an hour or so each Sunday (ritual)

No wonder you felt empty & left.

Did you ever love God and understand what He can do for your life?
Did you recognize Him in all circumstances?
Did you look behind you and see where He had helped you/your family?
Did you thank Him through an on-going and open communication for all that He has given you?
Did you even HAVE a constant communication with Him?
Did you see Him in all things?

Religion of any kind is the killer of faith!!!!!!! Faith is very simply a recognition and appreciation of God.

[catalyst]

I was brought up in a Christian home, having been taught Christianity and its virtues from birth. I believed it by default. My parents were genuine Christians, believing it was their job to teach me the ways of the lord. They lived the Christian life. One of the things I have always respected them for was that they way they were at Church was no different to the way they were at home. I saw them as good Christian role models and I believe that is part of the reason why I followed in their footsteps.

I officially became born again at the age of 7. I always tried hard to emulate Jesus, following his teachings, taking his advice. At the age of 16 I went into ministry for the first time, as a leader at kids camps. My church pastor recommended me and I was being called �Uncle Richard� by kids only 6 years younger than me. This was definitely not a pride thing. I felt privileged to be able to do something for God. I always welcomed opportunities to do things for God.

My life as a Christian, was simple. I believed Jesus to be the son of God. I had absolute faith that Jesus was who he said he was. I strived to be like him. I prayed regularly, read my bible and studied. I believed the bible to be the infallible word of God. I regularly put my life right with him, asking for forgiveness when I felt I needed to. I attended church most Sundays, and often evenings. I attended cell groups. I helped people when I could who needed it.

When I left home, I continued to follow Christ, eager to be involved in ministry, eager to worship and praise him. I was put in leadership roles, trusted and respected. But please don�t think I am trying to blow my own trumpet. I am just telling you this because I want you to see that there were many people who believed me to be a true Christian. Even non-Christians did not question my integrity. � apart from one when I was about 19 who criticized me for swearing occasionally, telling a few crude jokes and for once wearing a shirt with dragons on it.

I made no secrets of the fact I was a Christian. I loved to talk about the lord. I always attempted to set an example.

I was never a fan of religion. I never approved of churches like the catholic church which focused on a lot of religious ritual. I chose to go to churches where religion was generally looked down upon. I believed I had a �relationship with God�.

I have always strived to better myself. To be more like Christ.

Of course a couple of years ago, I left the faith (that�s another story)

There are many Christians I have come across on-line, including some here, who although they know little (or nothing at all) of my background, insist I was never a true Christian � or insinuate it. Some are quite judgemental about it. Some try to be polite about it. I know I shouldn�t let it bother me, But I served the lord genuinely for over 30 years. I know I did what was expect of me as a Christian. I put my heart and soul into it. I wasn�t perfect by any means, but no Christian is.

So my questions:

Based on what I�ve told you here�

Was I a true Christian? If not, why not? Where do you think I went wrong?'

BTW, I'm happy to elaborate on any issues if you wish to ask questions.

From what you have said here, you sound pretty textbook. No problems in your religious adherance. My question is: so what? It has been my experience that christianity is like ALL religions.

Sure - you prayed. (ritual)
Sure you tithed. (ritual)
Sure. You felt the holy spirit (emotions fed by other religionists)
Sure. You sang praises (ritual)
Sure. You gave an hour or so each Sunday (ritual)

No wonder you felt empty & left.

Did you ever love God and understand what He can do for your life?
Did you recognize Him in all circumstances?
Did you look behind you and see where He had helped you/your family?
Did you thank Him through an on-going and open communication for all that He has given you?
Did you even HAVE a constant communication with Him?
Did you see Him in all things?

Religion of any kind is the killer of faith!!!!!!! Faith is very simply a recognition and appreciation of God.

Obviously Justify Others, you chose to ignore Once Convinced's paragraph stating:
OC wrote:

I was never a fan of religion. I never approved of churches like the catholic church which focused on a lot of religious ritual. I chose to go to churches where religion was generally looked down upon. I believed I had a �relationship with God

before you went off on your ritual vs relationship rant.

[justifyothers]

I was brought up in a Christian home, having been taught Christianity and its virtues from birth. I believed it by default. My parents were genuine Christians, believing it was their job to teach me the ways of the lord. They lived the Christian life. One of the things I have always respected them for was that they way they were at Church was no different to the way they were at home. I saw them as good Christian role models and I believe that is part of the reason why I followed in their footsteps.

I officially became born again at the age of 7. I always tried hard to emulate Jesus, following his teachings, taking his advice. At the age of 16 I went into ministry for the first time, as a leader at kids camps. My church pastor recommended me and I was being called �Uncle Richard� by kids only 6 years younger than me. This was definitely not a pride thing. I felt privileged to be able to do something for God. I always welcomed opportunities to do things for God.

My life as a Christian, was simple. I believed Jesus to be the son of God. I had absolute faith that Jesus was who he said he was. I strived to be like him. I prayed regularly, read my bible and studied. I believed the bible to be the infallible word of God. I regularly put my life right with him, asking for forgiveness when I felt I needed to. I attended church most Sundays, and often evenings. I attended cell groups. I helped people when I could who needed it.

When I left home, I continued to follow Christ, eager to be involved in ministry, eager to worship and praise him. I was put in leadership roles, trusted and respected. But please don�t think I am trying to blow my own trumpet. I am just telling you this because I want you to see that there were many people who believed me to be a true Christian. Even non-Christians did not question my integrity. � apart from one when I was about 19 who criticized me for swearing occasionally, telling a few crude jokes and for once wearing a shirt with dragons on it.

I made no secrets of the fact I was a Christian. I loved to talk about the lord. I always attempted to set an example.

I was never a fan of religion. I never approved of churches like the catholic church which focused on a lot of religious ritual. I chose to go to churches where religion was generally looked down upon. I believed I had a �relationship with God�.

I have always strived to better myself. To be more like Christ.

Of course a couple of years ago, I left the faith (that�s another story)

There are many Christians I have come across on-line, including some here, who although they know little (or nothing at all) of my background, insist I was never a true Christian � or insinuate it. Some are quite judgemental about it. Some try to be polite about it. I know I shouldn�t let it bother me, But I served the lord genuinely for over 30 years. I know I did what was expect of me as a Christian. I put my heart and soul into it. I wasn�t perfect by any means, but no Christian is.

So my questions:

Based on what I�ve told you here�

Was I a true Christian? If not, why not? Where do you think I went wrong?'

BTW, I'm happy to elaborate on any issues if you wish to ask questions.

From what you have said here, you sound pretty textbook. No problems in your religious adherance. My question is: so what? It has been my experience that christianity is like ALL religions.

Sure - you prayed. (ritual)
Sure you tithed. (ritual)
Sure. You felt the holy spirit (emotions fed by other religionists)
Sure. You sang praises (ritual)
Sure. You gave an hour or so each Sunday (ritual)

No wonder you felt empty & left.

Did you ever love God and understand what He can do for your life?
Did you recognize Him in all circumstances?
Did you look behind you and see where He had helped you/your family?
Did you thank Him through an on-going and open communication for all that He has given you?
Did you even HAVE a constant communication with Him?
Did you see Him in all things?

Religion of any kind is the killer of faith!!!!!!! Faith is very simply a recognition and appreciation of God.

Obviously Justify Others, you chose to ignore Once Convinced's paragraph stating:
OC wrote:

I was never a fan of religion. I never approved of churches like the catholic church which focused on a lot of religious ritual. I chose to go to churches where religion was generally looked down upon. I believed I had a �relationship with God

before you went off on your ritual vs relationship rant.

Yep - You're right. I must admit - I got almost to the end and assumed I knew the rest. Sorry about that. Glad you pointed it out - hopefully I won't get beaten too bad for this

[catalyst]

Yep - You're right. I must admit - I got almost to the end and assumed I knew the rest. Sorry about that. Glad you pointed it out - hopefully I won't get beaten too bad for this

LOL! Believe me, I was going to be harder on you before my pre-post edit! lol

I re-evaluated though and after reading many of your posts elsewhere on DC&R, realised something must have been amiss.

As to the whole 'faith" aspect though, as to a more personal relationship, rather than the ritual one with bible god, it must be realised that without the religious aspects OF it all, those these "new age" days, going with the relationship aspect over the ritual one, would not even have heard hide nor hair OF this god you have "faith" and a "personal" relationship with, if it were not FOR the religious, ritual forerunners.

As horrifying as it may be to you, they are a HUGE part of the reason why you choose to "believe" in the first place. The belief comes from one book and the ritual fella's are the ones who put all those stories together in what now is, I am assuming your life-guide "book".

[justifyothers]

Yep - You're right. I must admit - I got almost to the end and assumed I knew the rest. Sorry about that. Glad you pointed it out - hopefully I won't get beaten too bad for this

LOL! Believe me, I was going to be harder on you before my pre-post edit! lol

I re-evaluated though and after reading many of your posts elsewhere on DC&R, realised something must have been amiss.

As to the whole 'faith" aspect though, as to a more personal relationship, rather than the ritual one with bible god, it must be realised that without the religious aspects OF it all, those these "new age" days, going with the relationship aspect over the ritual one, would not even have heard hide nor hair OF this god you have "faith" and a "personal" relationship with, if it were not FOR the religious, ritual forerunners.

As horrifying as it may be to you, they are a HUGE part of the reason why you choose to "believe" in the first place. The belief comes from one book and the ritual fella's are the ones who put all those stories together in what now is, I am assuming your life-guide "book".

Actually, it's not horrifying to me at all. I readily admit that the bible and religion were steps toward God for me. However, they did not become God to me.
I do not use the bible as a "life-guide". In fact, I do not even believe much of what is written in it to be factual/literal. I can see some wisdom and much can be learned from it's stories and teachings, but I also am able to see it for what it is: a collection of writings from men thousands of years ago, assembled as one book by different men thousands of years ago, translated by yet others hundreds of years ago and finally interpreted by men long ago and today that all feel they see the light. It is the determination of the latter that turned me away from it. The wars of men over a book/books...........
Do I think I may have found God without the bible? Unsure, but possibly. I do not use the bible or religion as evidence for God, but rather I see life and love as evidence of Him.

[catalyst]

Actually, it's not horrifying to me at all. I readily admit that the bible and religion were steps toward God for me. However, they did not become God to me.

So, you LIKE the god depicted in the compelation "book", whether in OT or NT form? The one who was either committing mass genocide (noah-flood - OT guy), or the one cursing cities with wrath worse than that of Sodom and Gomorrah, just because they didn't care for "his" teachings (bible jesus)?

I do not use the bible as a "life-guide". In fact, I do not even believe much of what is written in it to be factual/literal. I can see some wisdom and much can be learned from it's stories and teachings, but I also am able to see it for what it is: a collection of writings from men thousands of years ago, assembled as one book by different men thousands of years ago, translated by yet others hundreds of years ago and finally interpreted by men long ago and today that all feel they see the light. It is the determination of the latter that turned me away from it. The wars of men over a book/books...........

But the wars, rapes, slavery..et al, over bible god and in "his" name were going on well before any book of assorted writings surfaced. Wars were allegedly fought "in his name" on oral tradition alone.

Do I think I may have found God without the bible? Unsure, but possibly. I do not use the bible or religion as evidence for God.

But it is the only reference point you have. Obviously you could have "found" your god by for example watching Benny Hinn, but when push comes to shove, the only way to know of ANYTHING relating to capital G "god", if someone had told you, or rather taught you to believe it. Otherwise, why is your belief in capital G god, and not one of the many others up for offer?

but rather I see life and love as evidence of Him

because the bible "says so".

I am not BTW having a go at you at all. I am just very curious as to your comments.

[OnceConvinced]

From what you have said here, you sound pretty textbook. No problems in your religious adherance. My question is: so what? It has been my experience that christianity is like ALL religions.

Sure - you prayed. (ritual)
Sure you tithed. (ritual)
Sure. You felt the holy spirit (emotions fed by other religionists)
Sure. You sang praises (ritual)
Sure. You gave an hour or so each Sunday (ritual)

No wonder you felt empty & left.

Funnily enough I always found the praying, the singing praises and the church services fulfilling.

BTW, thanks for your comments Justifyothers. I respect your opinions as you seem to show the "fruits" of the holy spirit when you post here and have proven yourself to be rational and non-judgemental (as does Jester and Micatala who have also posted on this thread). I am more inclined to take you and the likes of them seriously over some others.

I agree, many of those things are religious ritual. But they seemed like necessary ones to me.

I know I did say I believed I had a relationship with God, but I will try to breifly address your questions anyway, in case anyone else is wondering.

Did you ever love God and understand what He can do for your life?

Yes. I always felt I did. In fact one day when I was younger I looked at a picture of Jesus on the wall and felt a warm feeling. It was like a revelation to me that I really did love Jesus.

I believed he could do a lot of things for me, but it may be possible some of those expectiations were unrealistic even from a Christian perspective. Some Christians would say yes, some would say no. It's more now that I look back that I tend to be more critical, where as before I tended to justify things.

Did you recognize Him in all circumstances?

I was a church yesterday. My parents'. I found out I was going even though I hadn't said I was going. The pastor actually gave an analogy I thought was extremely fitting. He said "A relationship with God is like constantly being "on-line" with God. It's like a broadband connection to him. (no kidding! Yesterday)

That was the perfect analogy for the way I saw my relationship with God. I tended to be regularly "chatting" with him as I went through the day, getting his opinion on everything and making many of my thoughts prayers to him.

Did you look behind you and see where He had helped you/your family?

Many times I looked back and saw that, yes. I could come up with reasons why certain things had happened a certain way.

I tend to rationalise it now. I think it's very easy to come up with reasons why for things in hindsight. Good will naturally come out of anything, it's just a matter of looking for it hard enough.

Did you thank Him through an on-going and open communication for all that He has given you?

Like having the permanent broadband connection with God?

Did you even HAVE a constant communication with Him?

Of course now I believe I was simply communicating with myself. But back then I truly believed I was communicating with God. Everything just seemed so much clearer when I did.

But even now it still seems just as clear. I think it's the same as writing things down really. When you write things down, your thoughts become clearer. What I was doing back then, was the equivalent of "writing" things down in my mind.

Did you see Him in all things?

Probably less so as I got older and learnt more about the world around me. There were plenty of things that didn't necessarily have to have a "God" explanation. Especially when things use to appear to have a "God" or "Satan" explanation and those things were shown to have purely natural explanations. However I did believe that God has a plan for my life and the things that happened in my life were for a reason. It could be that it's God's will for me to be an ex-Christian for a while so that I can be a witness to other ex-Christians. But it would certainly take some divine intervention on God's part to bring me back. And even if I did, I could no longer see the bible as the infallible word of God.

Religion of any kind is the killer of faith!!!!!!! Faith is very simply a recognition and appreciation of God.

2Bitmedia alwasy thought I had been an overly religious Christian, but then I don't think he fully understood my situation. There may have indeed been times where I tried too hard. But I find it hard to believe that God would penalise me because of my strong desire to serve.

I think anyone who attends a church is involving themselves in religious ritual to a certain extent. Church services are full of it. I've always believed it was necessary to attend church, give praises to God, read the bible and pray even if at times I slacked off a bit on the reading side of things. But I could see a lot of religion and it was not something I liked. Even saying grace before meals became to me just a religious ritual. I think my main problem may be as 2Bits has suggested in the past - taking the bible too seriously and opening myself up to disappointment. But if I was never a true Christian, I can't imagine that God would have rejected me simply for that. If I had never been a true Christian, God would have sent people along to tell me I wasn't, but he never did. In fact his silence was deafening.