Illegal Immigration

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Funny. It appears as if the unregulated free market embraced by today's religious right DOES have it's limitations.

When a greedy CEO decides to cut health care benefits for minimum wage workers in order to further engorge his profits, that's perfectly legit. But when a foreign laborer willing to work twice as hard for half the pay gets hired over you, THEN WE HAVE AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!

I'm tired of all the capitalist pigs complaining about losing jobs to Hispanics. This is the form of society you have embraced. Now you get to deal with the competition it entails.




Here's an idea: force companies to pay all workers the same wages, and there is no incentive to hire the immigrant over your average blue collar worker. Problem solved.

Is it really this simple, or am I just missing something?

What is the purpose of the complex naturalization process? I always thought America was the land of opportunity. Suddenly it has become an exclusive membership club. We assert the joys of a free market all over the world, but wish to deny certain groups of people these same rights on the home front.

Another idea. Enter the borders- BAM, your a citizen. Screw the little aptitude tests.

Would this cause any signifigant economic backlashes? The workforce would be no more saturated than it all ready is, right? I'm asking you guys... I'm no economist.



Please share your ideas and solutions.

[juliod]

Freeloaders?

Good question.

Cephus has again failed to count the value of the illegals uncompensated labor.

I read that there are 110 million illegals in the US. I suspect that that was an inflated figure given by an activist. Official figures are reportedly around 12 million, but many news stories say 20 million.

If there are 110 million illegals and if on average they save an employer $30,000 per year (including reduced wages, unpaid employment tax and social security, no benefits and reduced overhead expenses), then the illegals are contributing 3.3 trillion dollars per year.

Even if that figure is wildly innacurate it is still far greater than the costs of the illegals to the taxpayer.

DanZ

[Cephus]

Cephus has again failed to count the value of the illegals uncompensated labor.

Juliod has again failed to count the cost of the illegals very compensated labor. He's still ignoring the fact that they are here specifically looking for and taking low-paying jobs. They are not, by any stretch of the imagination, uncompensated.

I read that there are 110 million illegals in the US. I suspect that that was an inflated figure given by an activist. Official figures are reportedly around 12 million, but many news stories say 20 million.

Last figure I heard was 15-20 million, so I figure that's pretty accurate. The figure you're talking about is the likely figure if the current amnesty bill gets passed where every illegal will be able to bring between 5-15 people with them to the United States. That could result in an additional 100-115 million people.

Even if that figure is wildly innacurate it is still far greater than the costs of the illegals to the taxpayer.

Not even close. I've already given a lot of cost figures but I don't think they included lost tax revenue or lost business revenue. Illegals pay no federal, state or local income taxes and because the majority of their money goes back to Mexico, they don't spend their earnings, meager as they may be, in the local community. They don't spend money on education, medical expenses, etc. The cost of illegals is *MUCH* higher than any potential savings.

[Cephus]

A new scenario:

Send US companies to Mexico, but force them to pay considerably higher than the local wage standard. All the 'wetbacks' would have no reason to come here in the first place.

The government could actually buy land in Mexico for businesses to expand on, and annex it, putting it under American labor laws.

If we can outsource journalists and accountants, surely we can outsource prospective immigrants as well.

Mexico doesn't want that to happen. You have to remember that Vincente Fox is actively telling the poor in Mexico to illegally cross the border. The Mexican government is printing guides on how to sneak into the US and passing them out to their poorest people. This is how Mexico is solving their poverty problem, they're just foisting them off on the United States.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Mexico doesn't want that to happen. You have to remember that Vincente Fox is actively telling the poor in Mexico to illegally cross the border. The Mexican government is printing guides on how to sneak into the US and passing them out to their poorest people. This is how Mexico is solving their poverty problem, they're just foisting them off on the United States.

If the Mexicans are willing to cross rugged country and dodge the border patrol to get a hand in our resources, I see no reason why they would object to us bringing those resources to them. One less thing they have to do- pass out the pamphlets.

If anything, it could offset any possible increase in immigration after opening the borders.

[1John2_26]

If the Mexicans are willing to cross rugged country and dodge the border patrol to get a hand in our resources, I see no reason why they would object to us bringing those resources to them. One less thing they have to do- pass out the pamphlets.

If anything, it could offset any possible increase in immigration after opening the borders.

Unless these Mexicans want to become American's they will always be opposed. Cancer is not something that can be avoided for too long. It is time to oppose "Mexicans" on our land.

Don't these "hispanics" realize that the very language they speak (Spanish) was given to them by a conquering nation that did not treat them the way the U.S. has treated them?

They are the racists coming to our country and wanting to "be" foreigners."

In that way, they need to be repulsed from our land. BUT since that is impossible, we now need to do whatever it takes to get these people to realize that becoming Americans is not only common decency, but is also the right thing to do. Otherwise get them out of "our" country, "or" let them come in and then leave again.

Those that want to stay should be forced by laws JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE to become citizens the right way.

Illegal aliens are criminals of their own mamking.

[McCulloch]

My country in the past few days has deported a number of Portugese non-status workers. These are people who have come here on visitors' visas, found jobs, often in construction, drywalling or plumbing, and have stayed for as long as six years. They have been paying taxes, doing productive work, contributing to their communities and to the economy and except for being illegally employed and illegally staying past the duration of their visitors' visas, have not been breaking the law. Many people are asking why should we be sending these people back to a place which has ceased to be home for them. Some of the deportees are ones who have come forward to attempt to make their status legal. Should we be punishing such honesty?

I think that the answer lies in the point-of-view of a colleague of mine where I work. He has just recently become a citizen. He came here through the proper channels. It was determined by the appropriate government agency that he and his family would be beneficial to the country, that he had skills that were in demand and that he had a trouble-free background. Before being granted citizenship, he had to undertake a certain amoung of learning about our culture, society and history.

Every job that is taken by a non-status worker, is a job that has become unavailable to hard-working well-qualified and properly screened immigrants. Should they have to wait longer to come here because others jump the queue? In a radio interview this morning, one of the deported workers had to answer through an interpreter. Six years here and he still cannot speak either of our official languages! I think that this demonstrates that this country is not his home.

[Cephus]

If the Mexicans are willing to cross rugged country and dodge the border patrol to get a hand in our resources, I see no reason why they would object to us bringing those resources to them. One less thing they have to do- pass out the pamphlets.

Ah yes, because Mexico is so open in helping illegal aliens who want to enter their country and "get wealthy", right?

Oh wait, they don't. They actually have border security and don't let anyone pass their southern border.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Every job that is taken by a non-status worker, is a job that has become unavailable to hard-working well-qualified and properly screened immigrants. Should they have to wait longer to come here because others jump the queue?

Remove the queue, and this ceases to be an issue.

People should not have to "wait in line" in order to access the resources needed to build themselves a better life.

And besides, the people deemed by the government to have the "skills in demand" are not typically going to be vying for jobs hammering nails. Those sneaking over the border are not comming to be accountants. How many people's jobs are actually in danger?

Ah yes, because Mexico is so open in helping illegal aliens who want to enter their country and "get wealthy", right?

Oh wait, they don't. They actually have border security and don't let anyone pass their southern border.

What do immigrants have to do with this? This is about putting American manufacturing firms in Mexico and offering jobs to the native MEXICANS.

Or is this along the lines of "they won't help immigrants comming to their country, we're not going to help theirs"? If so, that is pretty juvenile.

They are the racists coming to our country and wanting to "be" foreigners."

In that way, they need to be repulsed from our land. BUT since that is impossible, we now need to do whatever it takes to get these people to realize that becoming Americans is not only common decency, but is also the right thing to do. Otherwise get them out of "our" country, "or" let them come in and then leave again.

This is not about which flag they wave. This is about jobs- nothing more.

I don't particularly cherish being American, and might even cede my citizenship if given the chance. Does this make me a drain on the economy? Of course not.

We can make them adapt to some essential English without forcing them to go through the rediculous naturalization process.

Those that want to stay should be forced by laws JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE to become citizens the right way.

I agree.

Only difference is, I want to change just what the "right way" is. If you can sign your name (or scribble something vaguely similar) on the registration papers, BAM, you're a citizen.

[McCulloch]

Switzerland has a category of people called guest workers or something like that. If they can hold a job, they can stay.

[Cephus]

What do immigrants have to do with this? This is about putting American manufacturing firms in Mexico and offering jobs to the native MEXICANS.

Hey, you're the one who is saying we should just open the borders and let anyone in who wants to. Mexico would love it if we would, that's what they fight for on a daily basis. Of course, Mexico also deports approximately 500 Guatamalans per day by bus across their southern border, plus illegals of other nationalities out of Mexico City by plane and boat. And you want to know who pays for most of it? THE UNITED STATES! It's cheaper than waiting until they get here.

If you want companies to move to Mexico, you're nuts. The only reason US companies move off shore is so they don't have to follow US laws. They're never going to go anywhere if they're going to be held to the same rules and regulations they are here.

I don't particularly cherish being American, and might even cede my citizenship if given the chance. Does this make me a drain on the economy? Of course not.

If you weren't paying taxes, were using valuable taxpayer resources and were sending the money you made outside the country, then yes, you would be a drain on the economy, just like illegal aliens are.

If you can sign your name (or scribble something vaguely similar) on the registration papers, BAM, you're a citizen.

Oh, I'm sure the terrorist groups will love that, just like they love our open southern border.