Pro Basketball Player Announces he is Gay... AND BLACK!!

[Ooberman]

OK, so it's not really shocking he's black... This is the first time an active professional athlete in a major sport has announced he was gay.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazi ... ile=no#all

Needless to say, now that the Christian Extremists are in decline, the responses are largely positive.


I'm sure there will be pockets of bigots who continue to attack, but the age of institutionalized bigotry towards homosexuals based on religious belief is in decline, thank God, so to speak.


Again, I repeat myself, Gay Rights is not an issue any more. It's done. Gay marriage will happen, gay rights WILL happen, and majority public acceptance WILL happen.

The question is what should we do about the small, vocal and hostile minority who would spread filth and lies in the name of God?

[East of Eden]

Does it bother you that that Miss America contestant a few years ago who stood up for traditional marriage was persecuted?

Reading up on that, it doesn't seem she was imprisoned or forced to undergo hormone-based treatment to 'cure' her.

Lots of people with same sex attarction want treatment to change. Do you have a problem with that?

If homosexuality is a choice, i.e. congenital, as so many Christians claim ...then why would 'lots of people' require treatment to change?

Homosexual activity is a choice, not the feelings themselves, just as adultery is a choice, the temptation itself isn't.

[JoeyKnothead]

Homosexual activity is a choice, not the feelings themselves, just as adultery is a choice, the temptation itself isn't.

Noting that my request may require you to present a biblical theology, your opinion thereof, and that I'm not seeking to debate this particular issue, but to better understand...

On the issue of temptation, how does "lusting after" relate? If I'm tempted, ain't there some lusting?

Sincere curiosity, and I will respect any response you may offer.

[charles_hamm]

It is called abnormal sexual relations and detestable in the Bible and the Bible states the the Lord hates detestable things.

It's completely normal in Nature. Why does God think it's abnormal? Does he hate Nature, too?

Please cite your source here. I don't think it is "completely normal in nature". This is a good source showing where it is not a normal animal behavior in nature.
http://www.narth.com/docs/animalmyth.html He has no reason to hate nature since it is not normal there either and has been demostrated to be abnormal.

BTW, What is normal? Anal sex with a woman? Oral sex? Masturbation? Polygamy? Knocking up 14 year olds (like "God" did to Mary?).

http://www.healthizen.com/sexual-health ... avior.aspx This website gives a list and explanations. Anal, Oral and mastubation, while legal are considered controversial. Polygamy is illegal in the U.S. so it is not normal. Remember, Mary was a virgin, hence the virgin birth.

So you decided to choose a religion that just happens to think homosexuality is a sin? Why not choose a religion that speaks out against pedophilia or murdering people for religious reasons?

Christianity does not endorse either one, so you can say I did choose one that calls both of those a sin.

Please cite the references. And why did you God command death to people, if he didn't agree with religious killing? Why did he endorse Mary who had married at 14, perhaps even had children younger?

Mark 7:21-23
21 "For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.�

Matthew 18:6
"but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Galatians 5:19-21
"19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Pedophilia is sexual immorality and a sin. Jesus tells people if you cause a child to sin it would be better to be dead than to that. God killed people for their unwillingness to repent and stop sinning. He killed them, not Christians. Mary was betrothed to Joseph between 12-14 as was the custom at that time. God endorsed her because she was pure, a virgin. Please cite a source that shows she had children prior to Christ.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/pedophilia. ... z2SF2GDxl2

Nope I was drawn because of Jesus Christ and the salvation He gives. Were drawn away from Christianity because it made your Christophobia seem O.K.?

So when did you decide homosexual was detestable? The day you read the Bible?
That's when I became a non-Christian, btw. When I read the Bible.

Nope. I thought it was detesable the first time I ever heard about what it was. The day I read the Bible just confirmed what I already knew.

[East of Eden]

Homosexual activity is a choice, not the feelings themselves, just as adultery is a choice, the temptation itself isn't.

Noting that my request may require you to present a biblical theology, your opinion thereof, and that I'm not seeking to debate this particular issue, but to better understand...

On the issue of temptation, how does "lusting after" relate? If I'm tempted, ain't there some lusting?

Sincere curiosity, and I will respect any response you may offer.

I would say 'lusting after' is an ongoing deliberate thing, a temptation can be over and done with quickly. As Martin Luther said, you can't prevent the birds from flying over your head but you can stop them from building a nest in your hair.

As far as Jesus' use of that phrase, one commentator says:

"The Jewish rabbis held that a man was guiltless who did not commit the act. Christ, as he always did, lays the laws upon the heart. If it is impure, full of unholy desires, one is guilty. It is our duty to keep the heart pure."

[JoeyKnothead]

Homosexual activity is a choice, not the feelings themselves, just as adultery is a choice, the temptation itself isn't.

Noting that my request may require you to present a biblical theology, your opinion thereof, and that I'm not seeking to debate this particular issue, but to better understand...

On the issue of temptation, how does "lusting after" relate? If I'm tempted, ain't there some lusting?

Sincere curiosity, and I will respect any response you may offer.

I would say 'lusting after' is an ongoing deliberate thing, a temptation can be over and done with quickly. As Martin Luther said, you can't prevent the birds from flying over your head but you can stop them from building a nest in your hair.

As far as Jesus' use of that phrase, one commentator says:

"The Jewish rabbis held that a man was guiltless who did not commit the act. Christ, as he always did, lays the laws upon the heart. If it is impure, full of unholy desires, one is guilty. It is our duty to keep the heart pure."

I 'preciate the schooling.

[KCKID]

Does it bother you that that Miss America contestant a few years ago who stood up for traditional marriage was persecuted?

Reading up on that, it doesn't seem she was imprisoned or forced to undergo hormone-based treatment to 'cure' her.

Lots of people with same sex attarction want treatment to change. Do you have a problem with that?

If homosexuality is a choice, i.e. congenital, as so many Christians claim ...then why would 'lots of people' require treatment to change?

Homosexual activity is a choice, not the feelings themselves,

. . .as is heterosexuality. Doesn't it naturally follow then that 'activity' will be based on one's innate feelings? So, what's the huge problem that Christians make of it when two homosexuals 'act out' those feelings with one another? Does it not always come back to "because God (the Bible) says ..."?

just as adultery is a choice, the temptation itself isn't.

Temptation has nothing to do with one's innate sexual orientation. And, neither does adultery. Adultery is a sexual relationship with another that breaches a marriage relationship. It's an act of betrayal and not an innate sexual orientation.

So, unless one is pressured by society - ESPECIALLY by Christians - to seek 'treatment' for their homosexuality, why would they want to change who they are? Moreover, why would Christians expect - even demand - that they change? I just can't quite grasp the logic behind the notion that everyone MUST be a heterosexual in order to 1. be accepted by society, and 2. be accepted by God. This does not compute . . .

[bluethread]

Homosexual activity is a choice, not the feelings themselves,

. . .as is heterosexuality. Doesn't it naturally follow then that 'activity' will be based on one's innate feelings? So, what's the huge problem that Christians make of it when two homosexuals 'act out' those feelings with one another? Does it not always come back to "because God (the Bible) says ..."?

That is indeed one of the faults of the romantic argument. It is based in hedonism and not the Scriptures. Enjoying ones passions is not always a bad thing. However, when one sets aside other considerations and places ones passions as the primary consideration, one slips into hedonism. The same can be said for polygamy, homosexual incest or bisexuality. It is at this point that the homosexual advocate shifts away from the romantic argument and attempts to set up barriers similar to those who support only monogamous conjugal marriage, ie governmental regulatory problems and social taboo.

just as adultery is a choice, the temptation itself isn't.

Temptation has nothing to do with one's innate sexual orientation. And, neither does adultery. Adultery is a sexual relationship with another that breaches a marriage relationship. It's an act of betrayal and not an innate sexual orientation.

So, unless one is pressured by society - ESPECIALLY by Christians - to seek 'treatment' for their homosexuality, why would they want to change who they are? Moreover, why would Christians expect - even demand - that they change? I just can't quite grasp the logic behind the notion that everyone MUST be a heterosexual in order to 1. be accepted by society, and 2. be accepted by God. This does not compute . . .

Yes, adultery is more contractual than visceral. However, polygamy, homosexual incest or bisexuality are visceral. If one were to accept your argument, why must people with these desires not be permitted to engage in them and 1. be accepted by society, and 2. be accepted by God? Do such restrictions also not compute?

[Ooberman]

Does it bother you that that Miss America contestant a few years ago who stood up for traditional marriage was persecuted?

Reading up on that, it doesn't seem she was imprisoned or forced to undergo hormone-based treatment to 'cure' her.

Lots of people with same sex attarction want treatment to change. Do you have a problem with that?

If homosexuality is a choice, i.e. congenital, as so many Christians claim ...then why would 'lots of people' require treatment to change?

Homosexual activity is a choice, not the feelings themselves, just as adultery is a choice, the temptation itself isn't.

According to Christianity, everything is a choice, so why do you choose to sin?

[bluethread]

According to Christianity, everything is a choice, so why do you choose to sin?

Probably for the same reason anyone does anything. It seemed like a good idea at the time. That said, as with every other erroneous behavior, if I recognize it for what it is, I can then take steps to make it less likely to happen again.

[Ooberman]

Please cite your source here. I don't think it is "completely normal in nature". This is a good source showing where it is not a normal animal behavior in nature.
http://www.narth.com/docs/animalmyth.html He has no reason to hate nature since it is not normal there either and has been demostrated to be abnormal.

Homosexuality is normal. Your source is as biased as it gets.

In 2009 an American Psychological Association research summary[28] included the following statements:
The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.
SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] has been controversial due to tensions between the values held by some faith-based organizations, on the one hand, and those held by lesbian, gay and bisexual rights organizations and professional and scientific organizations, on the other.
There are no studies of adequate scientific rigor to conclude whether recent SOCE do work to change a person’s sexual orientation.
Some individuals and groups have promoted the idea of homosexuality as symptomatic of developmental defects or spiritual and moral failings and have argued that SOCE, including psychotherapy and religious efforts, could alter homosexual feelings and behaviors. Many of these individuals and groups appeared to be embedded within the larger context of conservative religious political movements that have supported the stigmatization of homosexuality on political or religious grounds.
No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and most of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. These include the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA,[29] Royal College of Psychiatrists,[30] and Australian Psychological Society.[31]
The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.[30][32]

You are siding with a group that encourages bad behavior.

We see who you are.

BTW, What is normal? Anal sex with a woman? Oral sex? Masturbation? Polygamy? Knocking up 14 year olds (like "God" did to Mary?).

http://www.healthizen.com/sexual-health ... avior.aspx This website gives a list and explanations. Anal, Oral and mastubation, while legal are considered controversial. Polygamy is illegal in the U.S. so it is not normal. Remember, Mary was a virgin, hence the virgin birth.

How normal is a virgin impregnation? Aren't you defining the "miracle" of Mary as abnormal?

You have made arbitrary judgments on what is sinful or not.

So you decided to choose a religion that just happens to think homosexuality is a sin? Why not choose a religion that speaks out against pedophilia or murdering people for religious reasons?

Christianity does not endorse either one, so you can say I did choose one that calls both of those a sin.

Please cite the references. And why did you God command death to people, if he didn't agree with religious killing? Why did he endorse Mary who had married at 14, perhaps even had children younger?

Mark 7:21-23
21 "For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.�

Matthew 18:6
"but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Galatians 5:19-21
"19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Pedophilia is sexual immorality and a sin. Jesus tells people if you cause a child to sin it would be better to be dead than to that. God killed people for their unwillingness to repent and stop sinning. He killed them, not Christians. Mary was betrothed to Joseph between 12-14 as was the custom at that time. God endorsed her because she was pure, a virgin. Please cite a source that shows she had children prior to Christ.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/pedophilia. ... z2SF2GDxl2

Classic Apologetics. Of course, there is no mention of pedophialia - because as you even point out, they married girls who would be considered children today.

All a person has to do is think God approved of pedophilia. There is no mention against it int the Bible, and therefore a person, perhaps a whole group of people, could think 9 years old is acceptable. Or younger.

After all, if one is married, it's not considered a sin of the flesh, is it?

This is how the Christian adjust to new moral values that differ from his religion...

Nope. I thought it was detesable the first time I ever heard about what it was. The day I read the Bible just confirmed what I already knew.

I believe you. I'm sorry you have such hatred.