Obama Violating Separation of Church and State?

[East of Eden]

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/22/i ... obamacare/

In light of the above link, the questions for debate are:

1. Is Obama violating the separation of church and state?

2. Would it be OK if a Republican president urged pastors to work against same-sex marriage initiatives?

3. Aren't churches supposed to keep out of partisan political battles to maintain their tax-exempt status?

[East of Eden]

Well for starters, I am not "leftist". Thanks for trying to generalize me. I am as fiscally conservative as they come yet socially liberal. So inherently I do not like either party.

Hmmmmm....why would a fiscally conservative person defend a POTUS with a $1.4 trillion deficit? I apologive for thinking you a koolaid drinking Hopium addict.

Second, you have supplied no credible evidence.

Yes I did, you just chose to ignore it. Are all 158 lies made-up?

[Chuck_G]

Well for starters, I am not "leftist". Thanks for trying to generalize me. I am as fiscally conservative as they come yet socially liberal. So inherently I do not like either party.

Hmmmmm....why would a fiscally conservative person defend a POTUS with a $1.4 trillion deficit? I apologive for thinking you a koolaid drinking Hopium addict.

Nice condescending rude remark there! Although I doubt Board will be too offended by it coming from a Fox News cheerleader.

Second, you have supplied no credible evidence.

Yes I did, you just chose to ignore it.

You provided none.

Are all 158 lies made-up?

Not all, but apparently most. Here is a refutation of the first 46 started as a chain email. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you want to smear Obama and fuel your hatred you are doing yourself, and your cause a disservice by using faulty sources, Fox News propaganda, and personal opinion. Try harder as you are certainly capable.

[East of Eden]

Well for starters, I am not "leftist". Thanks for trying to generalize me. I am as fiscally conservative as they come yet socially liberal. So inherently I do not like either party.

Hmmmmm....why would a fiscally conservative person defend a POTUS with a $1.4 trillion deficit? I apologive for thinking you a koolaid drinking Hopium addict.

Nice condescending rude remark there! Although I doubt Board will be too offended by it coming from a Fox News cheerleader.

Second, you have supplied no credible evidence.

Yes I did, you just chose to ignore it.

You provided none.

Are all 158 lies made-up?

Not all, but apparently most. Here is a refutation of the first 46 started as a chain email. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you want to smear Obama and fuel your hatred you are doing yourself, and your cause a disservice by using faulty sources, Fox News propaganda, and personal opinion. Try harder as you are certainly capable.

Do I get to just dismiss your link out of hand too?

I don't hate Obama, I hate his policies that are destroying the country. He is personally popular but his policies are unpopular. Clinton was reelected because his policies were popular even though he was personally unpopular, and deservedly so. Clinton was more of a pragmatist, Obama is a rigid left wing extremist in over his head.

Fox, you mean the most trusted name in news? Face it, the MSM news ratings are in the dumper.

[Board]

Well for starters, I am not "leftist". Thanks for trying to generalize me. I am as fiscally conservative as they come yet socially liberal. So inherently I do not like either party.

Hmmmmm....why would a fiscally conservative person defend a POTUS with a $1.4 trillion deficit? I apologive for thinking you a koolaid drinking Hopium addict.

And this is where you have missed the point of my responses. Not once have I supported the Health Care Bill. I do think it is over spending and will not be as effective as the administrations believes. I hope it is also reformed in the near future to be both effective and fiscally responsible.

However, I do not see where there is a violation of church and state which is the point of the topic.

[Wyvern]

Do I get to just dismiss your link out of hand too?

It was not, I asked whether in one of those 158 supposed lies was there one that supported your claim about what Obama said about healthcare reforms cost and you pithily replied that it is #159. Even though you have not provided any support for your claims and I have asked for you to retract your claims based on the nature of your response you instead have not retracted nor have you shown any desire to demonstrate any proof for your claims.

I don't hate Obama, I hate his policies that are destroying the country. He is personally popular but his policies are unpopular. Clinton was reelected because his policies were popular even though he was personally unpopular, and deservedly so. Clinton was more of a pragmatist, Obama is a rigid left wing extremist in over his head.

Obama is not an extremist except from the viewpoint from people that are on the extreme right wing. Plus of course Obama's election is yet another thing you can blame on Bush. If Bush hadn't screwed up as badly as he had during his presidency chances are good that Obama would not have been elected. Because of Bush it didn't matter who the democrats put up for the election, whoever they put up started out with a massive advantage given them by the Republicans.

Fox, you mean the most trusted name in news? Face it, the MSM news ratings are in the dumper.

You keep trying to distance Fox from the rest of the MSM but face it they are part of the MSM. Just because they have a different political bias does not mean they are not part of the club.

[East of Eden]

Do I get to just dismiss your link out of hand too?

It was not, I asked whether in one of those 158 supposed lies was there one that supported your claim about what Obama said about healthcare reforms cost and you pithily replied that it is #159. Even though you have not provided any support for your claims and I have asked for you to retract your claims based on the nature of your response you instead have not retracted nor have you shown any desire to demonstrate any proof for your claims.

I'll see if I can find it for you. After promising all along his plan would cut costs he recently said something like, well what do you expect, prices will go up if we cover more people......

Obama is not an extremist except from the viewpoint from people that are on the extreme right wing.

And I would say he is only NOT an extremist from those on the extreme left. He had the most liberal voting record in the Senate, moreso than socialist Bernie Sanders. He has a trail of radical assoicates like the Rev.Wright, Bill Ayers and I would argue David Axelrod.

Plus of course Obama's election is yet another thing you can blame on Bush. If Bush hadn't screwed up as badly as he had during his presidency chances are good that Obama would not have been elected.

Agreed, if Bush had not gone into Iraq Obama wouldn't be president. But he did it out of principle, not because of polls. Iraq has a chance to be an island of democracy in the Mid-east, and a mass murdering dictator who supported international terror is gone.

Because of Bush it didn't matter who the democrats put up for the election, whoever they put up started out with a massive advantage given them by the Republicans.

A similar advantage for the GOP this time around.

[WinePusher]

Obama is not an extremist except from the viewpoint from people that are on the extreme right wing.

And non-ideological independents. Have you seen the polls?

Plus of course Obama's election is yet another thing you can blame on Bush. If Bush hadn't screwed up as badly as he had during his presidency chances are good that Obama would not have been elected. Because of Bush it didn't matter who the democrats put up for the election, whoever they put up started out with a massive advantage given them by the Republicans.

I'd say the fact that the republican party ran a moderate who was only republican in name was the reason why they lost. McCain alienated the conservative base (the majority of Americans) badly, it was as if we were running two liberals. Plus, the nice media bias for Obama probably didn't hurt the Democrats.

Fox, you mean the most trusted name in news? Face it, the MSM news ratings are in the dumper.

You keep trying to distance Fox from the rest of the MSM but face it they are part of the MSM. Just because they have a different political bias does not mean they are not part of the club.

What's humorous is that Fox beats every other single news station out there. And Fox is of course, conservative in many aspects, what's that tell you about this country?

[Wyvern]

I'll see if I can find it for you. After promising all along his plan would cut costs he recently said something like, well what do you expect, prices will go up if we cover more people......

What it takes three posts for you to finally take notice of it? You keep stating what you think he said but repeatedly you have failed to provide evidence that any such thing was in fact said.

Obama is not an extremist except from the viewpoint from people that are on the extreme right wing.

And I would say he is only NOT an extremist from those on the extreme left. He had the most liberal voting record in the Senate, moreso than socialist Bernie Sanders. He has a trail of radical assoicates like the Rev.Wright, Bill Ayers and I would argue David Axelrod.

Good old Bill Ayers, it never seems to matter to you how many times your claim is soundly refuted you keep trotting it out in the vain hope that it might stick one of these days. Simply put if you think Obama is a left wing extremist then it shows how far to the right politics in america has shifted.

Plus of course Obama's election is yet another thing you can blame on Bush. If Bush hadn't screwed up as badly as he had during his presidency chances are good that Obama would not have been elected.

Agreed, if Bush had not gone into Iraq Obama wouldn't be president. But he did it out of principle, not because of polls. Iraq has a chance to be an island of democracy in the Mid-east, and a mass murdering dictator who supported international terror is gone.

If you think Bush's only screw up during his presidency was going into Iraq I have to question where you were hiding during that time to only get that out of the news. I am also rather confused you apparently give Bush credit for doing something out of principle instead of listening to the people through the polls. But when Obama does something that runs counter to the polls you start crying about him not listening to the will of the people. This all sounds to me like a double standard on your part. What Bush did out of principle has cost this country thousands of lives and tens of thousands of permanent injuries along with hundreds of thousands of casualties among the natives. On the other hand what Obama has done out of principle is very likely to save thousands of lives. Why is it a good christian conservative republicans principles drives him to actions that cause hundreds of thousands of casualties while an evil liberals principles drive him to actions which save thousands of lives?

Because of Bush it didn't matter who the democrats put up for the election, whoever they put up started out with a massive advantage given them by the Republicans.

A similar advantage for the GOP this time around.

You would like to think so but the polls which you put so much faith in don't indicate any great shake up is going to occur especially considering how the whole tea party thing is starting to blow up in the republicans collective faces.

[Chuck_G]

Are all 158 lies made-up?

Not all, but apparently most. Here is a refutation of the first 46 started as a chain email. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you want to smear Obama and fuel your hatred you are doing yourself, and your cause a disservice by using faulty sources, Fox News propaganda, and personal opinion. Try harder as you are certainly capable.

Do I get to just dismiss your link out of hand too?

Yes, you certainly can. Which is exactly my point. Your link and my link were equally unreliable. Not to mention had nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

I don't hate Obama,

Fair enough. I should not have assumed this.

I hate his policies that are destroying the country.

Opinion noted. I am not pleased as well but think that "destroying the country" is inappropriate.

He is personally popular but his policies are unpopular.

Not so popular these days.

Clinton was reelected because his policies were popular even though he was personally unpopular, and deservedly so.

OK, I'm with ya.

Clinton was more of a pragmatist, Obama is a rigid left wing extremist in over his head.

Extremist? Sounds like some Fox News flavored kool aid to me.

Fox, you mean the most trusted name in news?

According to you and their slogan, yes.

Face it, the MSM news ratings are in the dumper.

I don't bother with them either. In fact Fox and BBC are the only news channels I have. You can watch BBC for about 30 minutes and it's pretty much the same thing for the rest of the day unless there's some breaking story. So I actually watch Fox somewhat frequently.

What I don't do is assume I am receiving accurate information when watching TV news. And more often than not, after a bit of research, I find Fox is at the very least putting a spin on the story in favor of their obvious agenda.

[East of Eden]

Opinion noted. I am not pleased as well but think that "destroying the country" is inappropriate.

Turning us into Greece would fit my idea of destroying the country.

Not so popular these days.

Obama is still personally popular.

Extremist? Sounds like some Fox News flavored kool aid to me.

Someone with the most liberal voting record in the Senate, moreso than socialist Bernie Sanders, is an extremist or the word has no meaning.

According to you and their slogan, yes.

No, FOX is the most trusted name in news according to the polls:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32039.html