Nonexistent prophecies

[santamarana]

Any challenge to the integrity of the bible will very likely draw the familiar prophecy fulfillment response. "If the bible is not inspired of God, how do you explain all the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled?"

The answer is quite simple.

The so-called prophecy fulfillments that the New Testament writers claimed in the person and deeds of Jesus of Nazareth were prophecy fulfillments only in the fertile imagination of the writers.

The virgin birth, the birth in Bethlehem, The slaughter of the innocents became prophecy fulfillments only through the distortions and misapplications of the original Old Testament statements.

Since fundamentalist believe the bible to be inerrant
why is John 7:37-38, Matt 2:23, in error and no where to be found in the bible whatsoever.

John 7:37-38
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Matt 2:23
And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

Can any Christian please refer to the old testament verse that Jesus and Matthew are quoting from?

[Good Will]

[Cathar1950]

[Good Will]

[Cathar1950]

Here they are:

Gen. 3: 15 (Rom. 16: 20) her seed . . . shall bruise thy head.
Gen. 49: 10 sceptre . . . until Shiloh come.
Gen. 49: 24 from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel.
Num. 24: 17 there shall come a Star out of Jacob.
Deut. 18: 15 (Acts 7: 37) raise up unto thee a Prophet.
Ps. 2: 7 (Ps. 2: 12) Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee.
Ps. 22: 1 my God, why hast thou forsaken me.
Ps. 22: 16 they pierced my hands and my feet.
Ps. 24: 10 Who is this King of glory.
Ps. 34: 20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
Ps. 68: 18 thou hast led captivity captive.
Ps. 69: 9 zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
Ps. 69: 21 (Matt. 27: 34, 48) in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
Ps. 110: 4 priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Ps. 118: 22 (Matt. 21: 42) stone which the builders refused is become the head.
Ps. 132: 17 make the horn of David to bud.
Isa. 7: 14 (Matt. 1: 23) a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son . . . Immanuel.
Isa. 9: 6 unto us a child is born.
Isa. 11: 1 there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse.
Isa. 25: 9 this is our God: we have waited for him.
Isa. 28: 16 I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone.
Isa. 40: 3 Prepare ye the way of the Lord.
Isa. 42: 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners.
Isa. 50: 6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks.
Isa. 53: 5 he was wounded for our transgressions.
Isa. 59: 20 Redeemer shall come to Zion.
Isa. 61: 1 anointed me to preach good tidings.
Jer. 23: 5 (Jer. 33: 15) raise unto David a righteous Branch.
Ezek. 37: 12 (Matt. 27: 52) I will open your graves.
Dan. 9: 24 to make reconciliation for iniquity.
Dan. 9: 26 shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself.
Hosea 11: 1 (Matt. 2: 15) I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Hosea 13: 14 I will redeem them from death.
Jonah 2: 6 (Jonah 2: 2-9) Thou brought up my life from corruption.
Micah 5: 2 (Matt. 2: 6) Bethlehem . . . out of thee shall he come forth unto me.
Hab. 3: 13 thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people.
Zech. 3: 8 (Zech. 6: 12) I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
Zech. 9: 9 thy King cometh unto thee . . . riding upon an xxx.
Zech. 11: 13 I was prised at . . . thirty pieces of silver.
Zech. 13: 6 I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Mal. 3: 1 Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple.

Okay, Cathar, go for it!

While I am going for it you could explain how this list is about Jesus.
For example how is "her seed . . . shall bruise thy head" about Jesus when all we really know is that her seed is being mentioned. Now if the mythical Eve, the god of a living, has many children wouldn't they all qualify?
I already have a pretty good idea as to how they are being used but I would like to know if you know why they are suppose to be about Jesus.
This should keep you busy until I get throught your list and give Goat a chance to respond as he has addressed lists much like this before as have I.
Maybe we can find you even more that your sources have not given you.
Wouldn't that be nice?

[Goat]

Oh well. Let's look at those prophecies about Jesus in the OT, shall we? I realize that NONE of these say "Jesus" and many are allusions. (Cathar and goat, no doubt, will say they ALL are "illusions".) But, like I said, let goat find his 40 and pull off a similar trick. How about 20? 10? 5 for starters?

Doing so would help, Cathar, because it would demonstrate that goat's theory is credibly workable.

Here they are:


Okay, Cathar, go for it!

Give me time to give them the attention they deserve (there are a number that I have dealt with time and time again, and don't impress me at all, not a very good start). The first few I went through are very poorly thought out.

[Good Will]

Here they are:

Gen. 3: 15 (Rom. 16: 20) her seed . . . shall bruise thy head.
Gen. 49: 10 sceptre . . . until Shiloh come.
Gen. 49: 24 from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel.
Num. 24: 17 there shall come a Star out of Jacob.
Deut. 18: 15 (Acts 7: 37) raise up unto thee a Prophet.
Ps. 2: 7 (Ps. 2: 12) Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee.
Ps. 22: 1 my God, why hast thou forsaken me.
Ps. 22: 16 they pierced my hands and my feet.
Ps. 24: 10 Who is this King of glory.
Ps. 34: 20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
Ps. 68: 18 thou hast led captivity captive.
Ps. 69: 9 zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
Ps. 69: 21 (Matt. 27: 34, 48) in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
Ps. 110: 4 priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Ps. 118: 22 (Matt. 21: 42) stone which the builders refused is become the head.
Ps. 132: 17 make the horn of David to bud.
Isa. 7: 14 (Matt. 1: 23) a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son . . . Immanuel.
Isa. 9: 6 unto us a child is born.
Isa. 11: 1 there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse.
Isa. 25: 9 this is our God: we have waited for him.
Isa. 28: 16 I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone.
Isa. 40: 3 Prepare ye the way of the Lord.
Isa. 42: 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners.
Isa. 50: 6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks.
Isa. 53: 5 he was wounded for our transgressions.
Isa. 59: 20 Redeemer shall come to Zion.
Isa. 61: 1 anointed me to preach good tidings.
Jer. 23: 5 (Jer. 33: 15) raise unto David a righteous Branch.
Ezek. 37: 12 (Matt. 27: 52) I will open your graves.
Dan. 9: 24 to make reconciliation for iniquity.
Dan. 9: 26 shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself.
Hosea 11: 1 (Matt. 2: 15) I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Hosea 13: 14 I will redeem them from death.
Jonah 2: 6 (Jonah 2: 2-9) Thou brought up my life from corruption.
Micah 5: 2 (Matt. 2: 6) Bethlehem . . . out of thee shall he come forth unto me.
Hab. 3: 13 thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people.
Zech. 3: 8 (Zech. 6: 12) I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
Zech. 9: 9 thy King cometh unto thee . . . riding upon an xxx.
Zech. 11: 13 I was prised at . . . thirty pieces of silver.
Zech. 13: 6 I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Mal. 3: 1 Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple.

Okay, Cathar, go for it!

While I am going for it you could explain how this list is about Jesus.
For example how is "her seed . . . shall bruise thy head" about Jesus when all we really know is that her seed is being mentioned. Now if the mythical Eve, the god of a living, has many children wouldn't they all qualify?
I already have a pretty good idea as to how they are being used but I would like to know if you know why they are suppose to be about Jesus.
This should keep you busy until I get throught your list and give Goat a chance to respond as he has addressed lists much like this before as have I.
Maybe we can find you even more that your sources have not given you.
Wouldn't that be nice?

I really don't mean to burden either of you two. Obviously, one can interpret the Bible any way they want. But those who wrote the scriptures often did so under inspiration of God (that's my faith). I'll give you my thoughts on how these scriptures apply to Christ.

Gen. 3: 15 (Rom. 16: 20) her seed . . . shall bruise thy head.
The seed of the woman (mankind) shall eventually overcome the serpent (Satan), mankind's mortal enemy, through Christ (the Son of Man) who shall crush the serpent's head; that is, Christ (and all those who follow Him) shall end the devil's deleterious influence in the affairs of men, even championing over death.

In a strange juxtaposition of symbolism, a brass serpent is later lifted up by Moses so that all who are afflicted by snake bites make look to it and live. Those who didn't believe in the curative powers of looking to the brass serpent died. In similar fashion, Christ is lifted up so that all may look to Him, and live.

Gen. 49: 10 sceptre . . . until Shiloh come.
The Heb. word shiloh may be a short form of asher-lo, which can be rendered "whose right it is", as found in Ezek. 21: 27. The people are gathered unto Him (Christ).

Gen. 49: 24 from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel.
Another messianic reference.

Num. 24: 17 there shall come a Star out of Jacob.
Another messianic prophecy.

Deut. 18: 15 (Acts 7: 37) raise up unto thee a Prophet.
Another messianic prophecy.

Ps. 2: 7 (Ps. 2: 12) Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee.
Ps. 22: 1 my God, why hast thou forsaken me.
Ps. 22: 16 they pierced my hands and my feet.
Ps. 24: 10 Who is this King of glory.
Ps. 34: 20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
Ps. 68: 18 thou hast led captivity captive.
Ps. 69: 9 zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
Ps. 69: 21 (Matt. 27: 34, 48) in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
Ps. 110: 4 priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Ps. 118: 22 (Matt. 21: 42) stone which the builders refused is become the head.
Ps. 132: 17 make the horn of David to bud.
Isa. 7: 14 (Matt. 1: 23) a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son . . . Immanuel.
Isa. 9: 6 unto us a child is born.
Isa. 11: 1 there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse.
Isa. 25: 9 this is our God: we have waited for him.
Isa. 28: 16 I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone.
Isa. 40: 3 Prepare ye the way of the Lord.
Isa. 42: 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners.
Isa. 50: 6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks.
Isa. 53: 5 he was wounded for our transgressions.
Isa. 59: 20 Redeemer shall come to Zion.
Isa. 61: 1 anointed me to preach good tidings.
Jer. 23: 5 (Jer. 33: 15) raise unto David a righteous Branch.
Ezek. 37: 12 (Matt. 27: 52) I will open your graves.
Dan. 9: 24 to make reconciliation for iniquity.
Dan. 9: 26 shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself.
Hosea 11: 1 (Matt. 2: 15) I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Hosea 13: 14 I will redeem them from death.
Jonah 2: 6 (Jonah 2: 2-9) Thou brought up my life from corruption.
Micah 5: 2 (Matt. 2: 6) Bethlehem . . . out of thee shall he come forth unto me.
Hab. 3: 13 thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people.
Zech. 3: 8 (Zech. 6: 12) I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
Zech. 9: 9 thy King cometh unto thee . . . riding upon an xxx.
Zech. 11: 13 I was prised at . . . thirty pieces of silver.
Zech. 13: 6 I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Mal. 3: 1 Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple.