You can not be Agnostic.

[Scrotum]

The definition of Agnosticism is:

A person who claims that they cannot have true knowledge about the existence of God (but does not deny that God might exist)

Or

Uncertain of all claims to knowledge

...


The General population calling themselves Agnostic, claim that you cant prove Gods existence, and you can not Disprove it (logical fallacy).


The problem here is, of course, That there is two groups, Atheist, and Theists.

That is all. There is no middle ground as the Agnostics claim. As you have to choose to be Theist or Atheist, you cant say "I am Agnostic", and claim that to be the answer. No, you have not answered the question, period.


Either you are a Theist Agnostic, or Atheist Agnostic, it is truly Either Or. Either you believe in God (Theist), but you claim it cant be Proven / Disproven, or you Do not believe in God (Atheist), and claim you cant Prove it / Disprove it.


Of course, its a fallacy to be an Theist without proof, as anyone claiming anything, and do not have evidence for it is either sick or crazy. Thats just how it is. And interestingly enough, Religion has for some reason gotten a "free pass" for this disturbing behaviour, as Unicorn Believers, or other developmentally challenged (mentallity retarded) people can be put into Institutions for the same. Why not Religious people? They claim the same, Why do they get a Free Card?



In the end, the fact is, Agnosticism is not an answer to "Are you Theist, or Atheist", is simply not an answer. So why do they continue to say such rubbish? What are they afraid of? Are they so afraid of taking a stance that they refuse to answer the Question, and in the end, even giving excuses for the position they take ("Agnosticism is a valid position" etcetera).


Thoughts?

[acamp1]

I dont "believe" anything of what you tell me.

You don't take my word for it, yet don't deny the shirt could be green. Sounds a wee bit agnostic to me.

(The shirt was actually sort of a bluish-purple, BTW.)

[bernee51]

EITHER YOU BELIEVE IN GOD, OR NOT.

End of story. IF you claim Agnosticism, Sure, Do you believe in God andit can not be proven, or you do not believe in God and it cant be proven?

Things are seldom that simple.
Do you believe that there is a God?

1. I am sure that there is a God.
2. I think that there probably is a God.
3. I don't know if there is a God but I think that it is more likely than not.
4. I don't know if there is a God, but I think that I could know if I investigated the evidence more.
5. I don't know and I think that there is no way to know if there is a God.
6. I don't know if there is a God but I think that it is less likely than not.
7. I think that probably that there is a God is pretty slim.
8. I am sure that there is not a God.

(a) believes in God.
(h) disbelieves in God.
(b) - (g) are all technically agnostic.

it would be wondeful to sort this out once and for all...but I won't hold my breath.

Re: belief - one can either believe or not believe.

The question that remains is ... can one not know if they believe or not?

[Zzyzx]

There IS a false dichotomy in the QUESTION, “Do gods exist -- yes or no?”

The actual existence or non-existence of gods may represent a true dichotomy.

However, when “Do gods exist?” is posed as a question to someone, there ARE answers other than “yes” or “no”, including “I have no opinion or comment on that question”, “I prefer to reserve judgment or comment”, “There is insufficient evidence upon which to render a decision”, or simply “I don’t know”.

Demanding that someone know or state “yes or no” presents them with a false dichotomy because another answer may well apply for them. As soon as the question is framed, “Do gods exist?” it is no longer a “yes or no” question because it asks for a personal opinion.

An example of a similar false dichotomy: “Answer yes or no, is my sister pregnant?” Since you don’t know even who my sister is, you cannot possibly know whether she is pregnant. Therefore a “yes or no” dichotomy is inappropriate. An appropriate response would be something similar to the three mentioned above.

Whether she is or is not pregnant may be a true dichotomy; however, demanding that someone know or state “yes or no” is a false dichotomy because many other answers are available to that question as asked. She or her doctor may not be able to give a yes or no answer unless tests have been done (information gathered).

It is rational to refuse to be forced to choose between limited alternatives supplied by others (unless they have a gun and I do not).

[bernee51]

There IS a false dichotomy in the QUESTION, “Do gods exist -- yes or no?”

The actual existence or non-existence of gods may represent a true dichotomy.

However, when “Do gods exist?” is posed as a question to someone, there ARE answers other than “yes” or “no”, including “I have no opinion or comment on that question”, “I prefer to reserve judgment or comment”, “There is insufficient evidence upon which to render a decision”, or simply “I don’t know”.

Demanding that someone know or state “yes or no” presents them with a false dichotomy because another answer may well apply for them. As soon as the question is framed, “Do gods exist?” it is no longer a “yes or no” question because it asks for a personal opinion.

I would agree with you re.

QUESTION, “Do gods exist -- yes or no?”

But the question really is: Do you believe god exists or not?

Can the 'I don't know' apply to the word 'believe'?

I suppose it is possible for someone to say "i don't know if I believe or not"

Perhaps...

[McCulloch]

I suppose it is possible for someone to say "i don't know if I believe or not"

Perhaps...

I don't think so. I think that it is quite reasonable for someone to say, "I don't know if God exists." But I don't think that you can say, "I don't know if I believe that God exists." If you believe, truly believe that God exists, you know that you believe that God exists. Therefore, if you don't know if you believe if God exists, you don't believe that God exists.