My take on Proverbs 8

[placebofactor]

The following from Proverbs 8, is one of the most positive proofs of the Sons relation to his Father. Wisdom refers to the Son of God, He is the Wisdom of God giving further proof of our Lord's Divinity. Proverbs 8 gives us a double sense of prophecy, the same double sense we find in David and Isaiah. The apostle John more than likely alludes to this passage in the introduction of his gospel, where he speaks of the Son of God, under the character of the Logos (or the Word); which can be rendered either the Wisdom, the Reason, or the Word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God." This Divine power and Wisdom have been imparted from the Father, to establish his only begotten Son with infinite skill, insight, knowledge, and wisdom to those who desire to receive it.

Proverbs 8:14, “Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.”

Verse 15, “By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.”
Daniel 2:21, “God “removes kings, and (raises) kings.”

Verse 17, “I love them that love me; and those that seek me early (diligently) shall find me.” Compare with,
Hosea 5:15, the LORD is speaking to Israel, “I will go and return to my place, ---------- and seek my face: in their affliction, they will seek me early (diligently).”

Proverbs 8:19, “My fruit is better than gold,” Compare with,
Revelation 3:18, Jesus is speaking, “I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich.”

Proverbs 8:22, “The LORD (the Father) possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.” Possessed is to set up, to inherit, before the work of creation began. Compare with,
John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Proverbs 8:23, “I (Wisdom) was set up (anointed) from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.” Jesus was enthroned over all the works of the Father. Compare with,
Hebrews 1:9, “God (the Father) has anointed thee (Jesus) with the oil of gladness above they fellows.

Proverbs 8:24, “When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.”
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning"
Genesis 1:3, “And God said let there be light: and there was light.”
2 Corinthians 4:6, “For God (the Father), who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,”

Before the mountains and hill were brought forth before he had made the earth, fields, or dust of the Earth, when he prepared the heavens, and when he drew a circle upon the surface of the deep
Proverbs 8:29-30, "When He (the Father) appointed (decreed) the foundations of the earth..." This is the declaration of the Father's will, concerning the creation of heaven and earth.
Then I (Wisdom, Jesus) was by him, (the Father) as one brought up with Him." The word "brought" is not the same word used in verse 24. Here it means to be trusted, confided in, and believed in, and also implies that Jesus, ascended to, as in will and deed, to His Father's will. Jesus was fixed, permanent, and durable, truth was in Him.

What’s your take on these verses?

[onewithhim]

I just believe you don't consult Bible lexicons, specially the meaning of Godhead in .

"Godhead" is just one English translation of a Greek word. That translation means nothing to a Greek student. That is just an English term used to correspond to a certain theological orientation, not to the text in an impartial way. It is theologically loaded.

As you have already been told, others render that same Greek word in different ways.

ABP derived some from Complutensian Polyglot, followed mostly from Codex Vaticanus and considered to be important manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint, state Col 2:9 the word "deity" in Greek "theotes" defined as the state of being God, Godhead, deity.
I always show evidence not just opinions. Just because you said it, then it is true? Opinion don't hold water.

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Just because Thayer says it, does that make it true? His opinions are just as worth researching as are anyone's else's. He might be wrong.

Anyway, above, you just proved what JWs have been saying here, that "Godhead" is not necessarily a legitimate word, when you quote Col. 2:9 as saying "For in him dwells all the fullness of the deity bodily." You note that it doesn't say "the Godhead."

And what "deity" is Christ the fullness of? That would be referring to the Father, Jehovah. Jesus has all the fullness of his Father's deity. As has been touched on---that doesn't make Jesus God.

Thayer published books, used by many. I also used as my resource and I could present as evidence, just not my own words.
A neutral resource as we are not of the same faith.

Yes, because I sensed that JWs like to find other word than "Godhead".
But "deity"and "Godhead" still are of the same Bible lexicon definition,"the state of being God"
If you use the definition, the verse would be read as, "For in him dwells all the fulness of "the state of being God" bodily.
No text twisting, same sentence construction, no awkward explanation, just using the definition.

You are doing exactly what you suggest that JWs are doing---text-twisting.

You have been shown MANY versions' treatment of this verse in Colossians. I believe I listed 10 or so. These versions did not use the word "Godhead." The NASB says: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." This Bible version and many others do not use "Godhead" at all. It is not just a JW thing.

You have ADDED to the words of Colossians to fit your theological opinions.

[placebofactor]

I just believe you don't consult Bible lexicons, specially the meaning of Godhead in .

"Godhead" is just one English translation of a Greek word. That translation means nothing to a Greek student. That is just an English term used to correspond to a certain theological orientation, not to the text in an impartial way. It is theologically loaded.

As you have already been told, others render that same Greek word in different ways.

ABP derived some from Complutensian Polyglot, followed mostly from Codex Vaticanus and considered to be important manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint, state Col 2:9 the word "deity" in Greek "theotes" defined as the state of being God, Godhead, deity.
I always show evidence not just opinions. Just because you said it, then it is true? Opinion don't hold water.

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Just because Thayer says it, does that make it true? His opinions are just as worth researching as are anyone's else's. He might be wrong.

Anyway, above, you just proved what JWs have been saying here, that "Godhead" is not necessarily a legitimate word, when you quote Col. 2:9 as saying "For in him dwells all the fullness of the deity bodily." You note that it doesn't say "the Godhead."

And what "deity" is Christ the fullness of? That would be referring to the Father, Jehovah. Jesus has all the fullness of his Father's deity. As has been touched on---that doesn't make Jesus God.

Thayer published books, used by many. I also used as my resource and I could present as evidence, just not my own words.
A neutral resource as we are not of the same faith.

Yes, because I sensed that JWs like to find other word than "Godhead".
But "deity"and "Godhead" still are of the same Bible lexicon definition,"the state of being God"
If you use the definition, the verse would be read as, "For in him dwells all the fulness of "the state of being God" bodily.
No text twisting, same sentence construction, no awkward explanation, just using the definition.

You are doing exactly what you suggest that JWs are doing---text-twisting.

You have been shown MANY versions' treatment of this verse in Colossians. I believe I listed 10 or so. These versions did not use the word "Godhead." The NASB says: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." This Bible version and many others do not use "Godhead" at all. It is not just a JW thing.

You have ADDED to the words of Colossians to fit your theological opinions.

The 10 Bibles you mention all used the corrupted Codex Sinaiticus, and the B. Vatican ms 1209, that's why they agree. These corrupted manuscripts agree with only 3% of all known documents.

[Capbook]

I just believe you don't consult Bible lexicons, specially the meaning of Godhead in .

"Godhead" is just one English translation of a Greek word. That translation means nothing to a Greek student. That is just an English term used to correspond to a certain theological orientation, not to the text in an impartial way. It is theologically loaded.

As you have already been told, others render that same Greek word in different ways.

ABP derived some from Complutensian Polyglot, followed mostly from Codex Vaticanus and considered to be important manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint, state Col 2:9 the word "deity" in Greek "theotes" defined as the state of being God, Godhead, deity.
I always show evidence not just opinions. Just because you said it, then it is true? Opinion don't hold water.

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Just because Thayer says it, does that make it true? His opinions are just as worth researching as are anyone's else's. He might be wrong.

Anyway, above, you just proved what JWs have been saying here, that "Godhead" is not necessarily a legitimate word, when you quote Col. 2:9 as saying "For in him dwells all the fullness of the deity bodily." You note that it doesn't say "the Godhead."

And what "deity" is Christ the fullness of? That would be referring to the Father, Jehovah. Jesus has all the fullness of his Father's deity. As has been touched on---that doesn't make Jesus God.

Thayer published books, used by many. I also used as my resource and I could present as evidence, just not my own words.
A neutral resource as we are not of the same faith.

Yes, because I sensed that JWs like to find other word than "Godhead".
But "deity"and "Godhead" still are of the same Bible lexicon definition,"the state of being God"
If you use the definition, the verse would be read as, "For in him dwells all the fulness of "the state of being God" bodily.
No text twisting, same sentence construction, no awkward explanation, just using the definition.

You are doing exactly what you suggest that JWs are doing---text-twisting.

You have been shown MANY versions' treatment of this verse in Colossians. I believe I listed 10 or so. These versions did not use the word "Godhead." The NASB says: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." This Bible version and many others do not use "Godhead" at all. It is not just a JW thing.

You have ADDED to the words of Colossians to fit your theological opinions.

I think you misread my reply, Deity and Godhead have the same Strong No.G2320 and definition by Bible lexicons, as "the state of being God."
If you use the definition of "deity" in NASB version, it will be read as, "For in Him all the fullness of (the state of being God) dwells in bodily form. I just think you don't visit Bible lexicons, there's no adding there, just using the definition of the word "deity".
The same sentence construction and no awkward explanation.


Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

[onewithhim]

I just believe you don't consult Bible lexicons, specially the meaning of Godhead in .

"Godhead" is just one English translation of a Greek word. That translation means nothing to a Greek student. That is just an English term used to correspond to a certain theological orientation, not to the text in an impartial way. It is theologically loaded.

As you have already been told, others render that same Greek word in different ways.

ABP derived some from Complutensian Polyglot, followed mostly from Codex Vaticanus and considered to be important manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint, state Col 2:9 the word "deity" in Greek "theotes" defined as the state of being God, Godhead, deity.
I always show evidence not just opinions. Just because you said it, then it is true? Opinion don't hold water.

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Just because Thayer says it, does that make it true? His opinions are just as worth researching as are anyone's else's. He might be wrong.

Anyway, above, you just proved what JWs have been saying here, that "Godhead" is not necessarily a legitimate word, when you quote Col. 2:9 as saying "For in him dwells all the fullness of the deity bodily." You note that it doesn't say "the Godhead."

And what "deity" is Christ the fullness of? That would be referring to the Father, Jehovah. Jesus has all the fullness of his Father's deity. As has been touched on---that doesn't make Jesus God.

Thayer published books, used by many. I also used as my resource and I could present as evidence, just not my own words.
A neutral resource as we are not of the same faith.

Yes, because I sensed that JWs like to find other word than "Godhead".
But "deity"and "Godhead" still are of the same Bible lexicon definition,"the state of being God"
If you use the definition, the verse would be read as, "For in him dwells all the fulness of "the state of being God" bodily.
No text twisting, same sentence construction, no awkward explanation, just using the definition.

You are doing exactly what you suggest that JWs are doing---text-twisting.

You have been shown MANY versions' treatment of this verse in Colossians. I believe I listed 10 or so. These versions did not use the word "Godhead." The NASB says: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." This Bible version and many others do not use "Godhead" at all. It is not just a JW thing.

You have ADDED to the words of Colossians to fit your theological opinions.

I think you misread my reply, Deity and Godhead have the same Strong No.G2320 and definition by Bible lexicons, as "the state of being God."
If you use the definition of "deity" in NASB version, it will be read as, "For in Him all the fullness of (the state of being God) dwells in bodily form. I just think you don't visit Bible lexicons, there's no adding there, just using the definition of the word "deity".

You are adding words there, according to YOUR opinions. That verse in the NASB does not say "the fullness of the state of being God." You have added to that verse.

[Capbook]

I just believe you don't consult Bible lexicons, specially the meaning of Godhead in .

"Godhead" is just one English translation of a Greek word. That translation means nothing to a Greek student. That is just an English term used to correspond to a certain theological orientation, not to the text in an impartial way. It is theologically loaded.

As you have already been told, others render that same Greek word in different ways.

ABP derived some from Complutensian Polyglot, followed mostly from Codex Vaticanus and considered to be important manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint, state Col 2:9 the word "deity" in Greek "theotes" defined as the state of being God, Godhead, deity.
I always show evidence not just opinions. Just because you said it, then it is true? Opinion don't hold water.

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Just because Thayer says it, does that make it true? His opinions are just as worth researching as are anyone's else's. He might be wrong.

Anyway, above, you just proved what JWs have been saying here, that "Godhead" is not necessarily a legitimate word, when you quote Col. 2:9 as saying "For in him dwells all the fullness of the deity bodily." You note that it doesn't say "the Godhead."

And what "deity" is Christ the fullness of? That would be referring to the Father, Jehovah. Jesus has all the fullness of his Father's deity. As has been touched on---that doesn't make Jesus God.

Thayer published books, used by many. I also used as my resource and I could present as evidence, just not my own words.
A neutral resource as we are not of the same faith.

Yes, because I sensed that JWs like to find other word than "Godhead".
But "deity"and "Godhead" still are of the same Bible lexicon definition,"the state of being God"
If you use the definition, the verse would be read as, "For in him dwells all the fulness of "the state of being God" bodily.
No text twisting, same sentence construction, no awkward explanation, just using the definition.

You are doing exactly what you suggest that JWs are doing---text-twisting.

You have been shown MANY versions' treatment of this verse in Colossians. I believe I listed 10 or so. These versions did not use the word "Godhead." The NASB says: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." This Bible version and many others do not use "Godhead" at all. It is not just a JW thing.

You have ADDED to the words of Colossians to fit your theological opinions.

I think you misread my reply, Deity and Godhead have the same Strong No.G2320 and definition by Bible lexicons, as "the state of being God."
If you use the definition of "deity" in NASB version, it will be read as, "For in Him all the fullness of (the state of being God) dwells in bodily form. I just think you don't visit Bible lexicons, there's no adding there, just using the definition of the word "deity".

You are adding words there, according to YOUR opinions. That verse in the NASB does not say "the fullness of the state of being God." You have added to that verse.

That is the result of studying the Bible without visiting Bible lexicons.
NWT is not a word for word translation, that is maybe why most Bible words from Hebrew and Greek not exist.
No Strong Concordance and no dictionaries, mostly relying to paraphrase translations/versions.
Prone to own interpretation, and might fall guilty to eisigesis.