Hosea 5:15

[placebofactor]

Hosea 5:15

I have several questions that need the insight of others. My questions concern Hosea 5:15. The LORD is speaking to the prophet and said to him,

“I will go and return to my place, until they (the Jews) acknowledge (or confess) their offense, and seek my face; in their affliction, they will seek me early.”

When do you think the Lord returned to his place? My response can be found in Acts 1:9 when Jesus “was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.” In other words, when he returned to his Father in heaven.
Your thoughts.

Second question: “What was the offense of the Jews?” I think it was the rejection and the murder of the Son of God.
Your thoughts.

Third question: What affliction is he speaking of? I believe it’s the time of Jacob’s trouble, or the ‘Great Tribulation" the Jews will have to suffer through.
Your thoughts.

[JehovahsWitness]

Did you not just say that "tearing down of the Jews" began in 724 B.C.? So, if they (the Jews) were torn down in 724 B.C.E wouldn't it be those same JEWS that would "two days" later be revived?

No, because in every prophecy concerning the Jews and the Land, there were first curses, then blessings. If a child disobeys his parents he is punished for that one act but not forsaken. ...

How does this address my question? Nobody is suggesting the Jews were forsaken... The prophecy itself says they would be "revived" but my question is (again) if the Jews were struck in 724BCE wouldnt it be the same Jewish nation that would be revived as promised in the passage under examination?

HOSEA 6:1-2
“Come, and let us return to Jehovah, For he has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us. He struck us, but he will bind our wounds. 2 He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him.

To illustrate : If a Father said "I'm going to take the children's football away from them (because they was playing ball in the house), but I will return it after two hours. How does it make sense to say it will be returned not to the children that it was taken from but to their neighbour?

If you say it was the children of Israel that were struck, surely two "days" later it is THEM that would be revived. I can understand suggesting it was Jesus that revived THEM, but not that it was Jesus that was revived.

[placebofactor]

Did you not just say that "tearing down of the Jews" began in 724 B.C.? So, if they (the Jews) were torn down in 724 B.C.E wouldn't it be those same JEWS that would "two days" later be revived?

No, because in every prophecy concerning the Jews and the Land, there were first curses, then blessings. If a child disobeys his parents he is punished for that one act but not forsaken. ...

How does this address my question? Nobody is suggesting the Jews were forsaken... The prophecy itself says they would be "revived" but my question is (again) if the Jews were struck in 724BCE wouldnt it be the same Jewish nation that would be revived as promised in the passage under examination?

HOSEA 6:1-2
“Come, and let us return to Jehovah, For he has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us. He struck us, but he will bind our wounds. 2 He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him.

To illustrate : If a Father said "I'm going to take the children's football away from them (because they was playing ball in the house), but I will return it after two hours. How does it make sense to say it will be returned not to the children that it was taken from but to their neighbour?

If you say it was the children of Israel that were struck, surely two "days" later it is THEM that would be revived. I can understand suggesting it was Jesus that revived THEM, but not that it was Jesus that was revived.

I suggest you read my post more carefully. Your response to my post is incoherent to me.

Hosea is writing to his people the Jews. He wrote in verse 13, "Ephraim to the Assyrians. Ephraim represents the 10 Northern tribes; Judah represents the two Southern tribes.

The ten tribes were brought into captivity around 724 B.C.

The two Southern tribes were brought into captivity beginning in 606 B.C. More were brought to Babylon in 599 and even more in 586 B.C.

All 12 tribes were released from captivity by Cyrus in 536 B.C.

All 12 tribes were again scattered in 70 A.D. because of their sins. That sin, they crucified the Son of God.

Jesus left for heaven in May of 31 A.D. so the 2000 years began in either April or May of 31 A.D. and will end in 2031 A.D.

In 70 A.D. the Romans were sent in by the Lord to destroy the city, the Temple, and disperse the Jews. For the past 1900 years they were called "The wandering Jews."

All 12 tribes were brought back to Israel in 1948.

Their final punishment is called the "Time of Jacobs trouble, this is still future. There will be three years of "Great Tribulation" for them in their homeland before the Lord returns to take vengeance on his enemies and the enemies of Israel.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #34]

I suggest you read my post more carefully.

Okay I just read it again, but neithet that nor your and wer addresses my question. Perhaps I'm not being clear enough...

Why if you claim the Israelites were struck, does the expression he will revive us, not also apply to them.

Or maybe its easier to ask...

Who are the "us" when Hosea says he will revive ---> us<---
(a) Jesus
(b) The Israelites

[placebofactor]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #34]

I suggest you read my post more carefully.

Okay I just read it again, but neithet that nor your and wer addresses my question. Perhaps I'm not being clear enough...

Why if you claim the Israelites were struck, does the expression he will revive us, not also apply to them.

Or maybe its easier to ask...

Who are the "us" when Hosea says he will revive ---> us<---
(a) Jesus
(b) The Israelites

I'll write the verse out for you and put in brackets those the verse is speaking of.

Hosea 15:15, "I (the LORD) will go and return to my place (Jesus returns to heaven, Acts 1:9), until they (the Jews) acknowledge their offense (confess their sins),"

Hosea 6:1-2, "Come, and let us (the Jews) return unto the LORD, for he has torn, and he will heal us (Jews):

Verse 2, "After two days (2000 years from May of 31 A.D. when Jesus ascended into heaven) will he (when Jesus returns) revive us (the Jews who are alive when the Great tribulation ends): In the third day (end of the 1000 year reign when he sets up his kingdom) he (Jesus) will raise us up (the Jews), and we will live in his sight."

Revelation And I (John) saw thrones, and they (no identity mentioned) sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (the ones on the throne): and I saw the souls of them (Jews who went into the tribulation) that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they (Jews) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

How do I know they are Jews reigning with Christ? Zechariah 8:23 tells us the Jews who reign with Christ for the 1000 years will, "In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men (Jews) shall take hold out of all languages of the (Gentile) nations, even shall take hold of the (sleeve) of him that is a Jew, saying (to the Jew), we (Gentiles) will go with you: for we have heard that God (Jesus) is with you."

[JehovahsWitness]

I'll write the verse out for you ...

Or alternativey you could simply answer the question; it's a simple enough question

- if the "us" = changes to JESUS you might like to explain why we should believe that the Israelites were struck ("us" ) but it is Jesus that is revived

HOSEA 6:1-2
“Come, and let us return to Jehovah, For he has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us. He struck us, but he will bind our wounds. 2 He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him.

- if the "us" = The Isrealites then we would , according to what you said (correct me if I have misunderstood ), count two thousand years from 724 BCE.

So, is the "us" of Hosea 6 verse 2a ("He will revive us after two days") Jesus or the Israelites?

JW

[placebofactor]

I'll write the verse out for you ...

Or alternativey you could simply answer the question; it's a simple enough question

- if the "us" = changes to JESUS you might like to explain why we should believe that the Israelites were struck ("us" ) but it is Jesus that is revived

HOSEA 6:1-2
“Come, and let us return to Jehovah, For he has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us. He struck us, but he will bind our wounds. 2 He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him.

- if the "us" = The Isrealites then we would , according to what you said (correct me if I have misunderstood ), count two thousand years from 724 BCE.

So, is the "us" of Hosea 6 verse 2a ("He will revive us after two days") Jesus or the Israelites?

JW

The us are the Jews. The ten tribes taken in 724 returned in 536 B.C. The two Southern tribes were taken captive beginning in 606 and 586 B.C. They also returned to Israel in 536 but returned in 536 B.C. Both of these were temporary punishments. But, for the second time, all 12 tribes (again) fell into sin, so the Lord sent in the Roman Legions to disperse all the Jews, both the ten northern tribes and the two southern tribes a second time. Jesus ascended into heaven in May of 31 A.D., that is when the 2000 years began.

This is the last one, if you don't get it, maybe someone else can explain it better for you.

[JehovahsWitness]

So, is the "us" of Hosea 6 verse 2a ("He will revive us after two days") Jesus or the Israelites?

The us are the Jews. ...

Okay so you mention a lot of dates... from which one of the dates that you have mention do we start counting the "two thousand years" ?

HOSEA 6:1-2
“Come, and let us return to Jehovah, For he has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us. He struck us, but he will bind our wounds. 2 He will revive us [The Jews] after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him.

[placebofactor]

So, is the "us" of Hosea 6 verse 2a ("He will revive us after two days") Jesus or the Israelites?

The us are the Jews. ...

Okay so you mention a lot of dates... from which one of the dates that you have mention do we start counting the "two thousand years" ?

HOSEA 6:1-2
“Come, and let us return to Jehovah, For he has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us. He struck us, but he will bind our wounds. 2 He will revive us [The Jews] after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him.

The timing of 2000 begins when Jesus said, Hosea 5:15, "I will go and return to my place, until ------." That happened in May of 31 A.D. + 2000 + May 2031 A.D.

[JehovahsWitness]

The timing of 2000 begins ... in May of 31 A.D.

Okay... so Israel was struck in May 31 AD. (I have to wonder why you mentioned all those other dates but no matter...).

My question is, what happened to Israel in that year (In what sense where they "struck" in May 31?

[placebofactor]

The timing of 2000 begins ... in May of 31 A.D.

Okay... so Israel was struck in May 31 AD. (I have to wonder why you mentioned all those other dates but no matter...).

My question is, what happened to Israel in that year (In what sense where they "struck" in May 31?

Israel was not struck in May of 31 A.D., that is when the Lord went to be with his Father, fulfilling Hosia 5:15, where the Lord said, "I will go and return to my place," This part of the prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus ascended into heaven.

The destruction of Israel began in 70 A.D. fulfilling Hosea's prophesy where the LORD said, Hosea 5:14, "I will tear and go away; I will take away, and none (no one) shall rescue them."

Hosea 6:1, is a prophecy looking backward into the past. "For he has torn, he has smitten,