Why did the founders give us the 2nd amendment?

[Daedalus X]

In another thread a member made the following claim.

You continue to demonstrate your misunderstanding of the Constitution. The 2d amendment was not created to facilitate armed rebellion against the very country the Constitution created. As it says itself, it was created so a 'well regulated militia' could protect the State.

Question for debate, why did the founders create the second amendment?

[Daedalus X]

When the victims of rebellions are liable to be innocent school children, I think one needs to sit down and ask oneself some serious questions, such as, is this a rebellion I actually want?

If a society is willing to lay down their weapons because children are being killed, then those who would want to disarm society will be happy to provide as many dead children as the society would need, in exchange for their guns.

[2ndRateMind]

When the victims of rebellions are liable to be innocent school children, I think one needs to sit down and ask oneself some serious questions, such as, is this a rebellion I actually want?

If a society is willing to lay down their weapons because children are being killed, then those who would want to disarm society will be happy to provide as many dead children as the society would need, in exchange for their guns.

You have an armed miltary, and an armed police force. There is little reason for the rest of the population to carry guns (allegedly) to protect children. It doesn't seem to work well for you.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Daedalus X]

You have an armed miltary, and an armed police force. There is little reason for the rest of the population to carry guns (allegedly) to protect children. It doesn't seem to work well for you.

It is because we have "an armed military, and an armed police force" that we need our guns, without our guns we will be easily enslaved. They are the enemy, police, military, FBI, ATF, IRS, CIA etc.

How well did the police work out for us in Uvalde? Remember: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

[2ndRateMind]

It is because we have "an armed military, and an armed police force" that we need our guns, without our guns we will be easily enslaved. They are the enemy, police, military, FBI, ATF, IRS, CIA etc.

If you say so. It is, after all, your country to ruin if you want.

How well did the police work out for us in Uvalde?

And how well did the dispersed distribution of guns work for you?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Daedalus X]

It is because we have "an armed military, and an armed police force" that we need our guns, without our guns we will be easily enslaved. They are the enemy, police, military, FBI, ATF, IRS, CIA etc.

If you say so. It is, after all, your country to ruin if you want.

The USA is ruined. It is now a police state. We need to rekindle the spirit of the founding fathers who gave us the constitution that we used to obey.
A wise man said...

Freedom is a fragile thing and it's never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by way of inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people.

How well did the police work out for us in Uvalde?

And how well did the dispersed distribution of guns work for you?

I don't understand what you are referring to here.

[2ndRateMind]

It is because we have "an armed military, and an armed police force" that we need our guns, without our guns we will be easily enslaved. They are the enemy, police, military, FBI, ATF, IRS, CIA etc.

If you say so. It is, after all, your country to ruin if you want.

The USA is ruined. It is now a police state. We need to rekindle the spirit of the founding fathers who gave us the constitution that we used to obey.

The USA is not a police state. Nazi Germany was a police state. The Soviet Union was a police state. Present day Iran is a police state. But you clearly do not appreciate the freedoms you have, and I do not intend to argue them out with you. But I will agree that you are heavily policed, and policed by force, rather than consent. I think there are two reasons for this: the amount of guns you have in private hands, and, more broadly, the fact that you all are far more concerned with the getting and keeping of dollars than the kind of social investment that would see the plight of your poor alleviated, and a more egalitarian nation.

How well did the police work out for us in Uvalde?

And how well did the dispersed distribution of guns work for you?

I don't understand what you are referring to here.

Would Uvalde, or any other of your school massacres, have happened if the guns were not freely available? And, how come none of them were prevented by private citizens carrying these freely available guns?

But, as I said. It's your country. Run it how you will.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Clownboat]

Would Uvalde, or any other of your school massacres, have happened if the guns were not freely available?

Nope, and we wouldn't have car accidents if we didn't have cars. No injuries from falling down stairs if we just got rid of stairs as well.
My only point is that we need to 'reason' about the world we do live in. Citizens of the USA have LOTS of guns. Your scenario above ignores this.

And, how come none of them were prevented by private citizens carrying these freely available guns?

You expect too much if you assume there will always be an armed citizen nearby to protect you. If you do ever need one, I truly hope there will be someone nearby though.
However, If you were shown examples of this exact thing happening (you must know about some of them), I don't think it would affect your reasoning personally.

Be well!

[2ndRateMind]

Would Uvalde, or any other of your school massacres, have happened if the guns were not freely available?

Nope, and we wouldn't have car accidents if we didn't have cars. No injuries from falling down stairs if we just got rid of stairs as well.
My only point is that we need to 'reason' about the world we do live in. Citizens of the USA have LOTS of guns. Your scenario above ignores this.

Hmmm. Not sure your argument here works very well. Staircases have a function: to get people from one floor of a building to the next. Cars have a function: to get people from point A to point B on a map. Admittedly, there will be some 'collateral damage'. The more dangerous the technology, the more collateral damage we can expect. Oh yes, and guns have a function: to kill. But the damage they inflict is not collateral, it is entirely deiberate. A gun has no other purpose. As for all the guns in the US; precisely. I am not ignoring this, just deploring it, on behalf of murdered innocents. It is as if common sense has been jettisoned just because it does not fit well with the business plans of corporate NRA members.

But, you all are where you all are. It would take courage to forego a gun when everyone else has one.

Is that satisfactorily reasoned for you? By the way, I am not trying to tell Americans how to run their lives; it's just that when I sense a philosophical flaw, I am drawn to tackle it.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Clownboat]

Would Uvalde, or any other of your school massacres, have happened if the guns were not freely available?

Nope, and we wouldn't have car accidents if we didn't have cars. No injuries from falling down stairs if we just got rid of stairs as well.
My only point is that we need to 'reason' about the world we do live in. Citizens of the USA have LOTS of guns. Your scenario above ignores this.

Hmmm. Not sure your argument here works very well. Staircases have a function: to get people from one floor of a building to the next. Cars have a function: to get people from point A to point B on a map. Admittedly, there will be some 'collateral damage'. The more dangerous the technology, the more collateral damage we can expect. Oh yes, and guns have a function: to kill. But the damage they inflict is not collateral, it is entirely deiberate. A gun has no other purpose. As for all the guns in the US; precisely. I am not ignoring this, just deploring it, on behalf of murdered innocents. It is as if common sense has been jettisoned just because it does not fit well with the business plans of corporate NRA members.

But, you all are where you all are. It would take courage to forego a gun when everyone else has one.

Is that satisfactorily reasoned for you? By the way, I am not trying to tell Americans how to run their lives; it's just that when I sense a philosophical flaw, I am drawn to tackle it.

Best wishes, 2RM.

It seems that you completely and utterly missed my entire point.

Copy/paste: My only point is that we need to 'reason' about the world we do live in. Citizens of the USA have LOTS of guns. Your scenario above ignores this.

But, but, but... guns are made to kill!

[2ndRateMind]

Copy/paste: My only point is that we need to 'reason' about the world we do live in. Citizens of the USA have LOTS of guns. Your scenario above ignores this.

But, but, but... guns are made to kill!

Hmmm. Read my post again. You might even find you get to understand it better, how it addresses all the points you made, and raises a few more you have so far declined to tackle.

Best wishes, 2RM.