Did Apostles teach baptism was optional as churches do today

[oldkjv]

1Pe 3:21a The like figure whereunto even *** baptism doth also now save us... ***

Fact: Here, Apostle Peter, using as an analogy, how the water lifted up the ark and saved Noah, the waters of baptism "DOTH NOW ALSO SAVE US."

Rom 6
4 *** Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: *** that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For *** IF *** we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
8 Now *** IF *** we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Fact: Apostle Paul states that baptism buries or plants us into death with Christ.
Fact: TWICE the Apostle says *** IF *** we have taken this course of action, we shall we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection and that we believe that we shall also live with him.

Act 10
47 *** Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, *** which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48a And *** he commanded them to be baptized *** in the name of the Lord.

Fact: Apostle Peter *** COMMANDED *** them to be baptized, unlike pastors today who will say you're saved as soon as you "accept Christ" and never even mention baptism.

Act 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, *** and *** ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ***


Fact: Apostle Peter said to *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU ***
Fact: Apostle Peter said to be baptized *** FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, ***
Fact: Apostle Peter said "*** and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost***" (which is a requirement of NT salvation) predicated upon the understanding that you repent and be baptized.


Act 2
41 Then they that *** gladly received his word were baptized:*** and the same day there were *** added unto them about three thousand souls. ***
Act 8
12 *** But when they believed *** Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, *** they were baptized, both men and women. ***

Fact: Believing the preached word in the NT church example was followed by baptism, not a handshake.

Act 22
16 *** And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, *** calling on the name of the Lord.

Fact: The Apostle Paul, when he believed, was first asked, "WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?" (paraphrased)
Fact: The Apostle Paul, when he believed, was instructed to *** arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS. ***

Compare Jesus' instructions with Peter's:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, *** Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ***

Act 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, *** and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Fact: Jesus and Peter BOTH made a primary issue in their ministries of being born of the water and Spirit. Jesus said without it you *** cannot enter into the kingdom of God *** and Peter said it was *** FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. ***

Fact: Never ONCE do we see the Apostles telling ANYONE to simply "accept Christ as their personal Savior" to obtain salvation as most churches do today.

Here we conclude there is a large gulf between the Apostles' teachings on baptism and modern day religiosity. Don't we need to follow a pastor that teaches what the Apostles and the NT church teaches, not a contrary message? It's a salvation issue.

[bareslehm]

Alright that is enough! Can you give me bible saying that baptism is optional!

You are still missing the point. Of course it is optional... The blood of Jesus reversed the curse.

We are NOT under the LAW.

You are making the GRACE; LAW by you approach to God's Word. God's Word is not the dead letter; it is a living Word. quick.

Baptism is not optional. Jesus commands us right before he ascends to heaven. Go and baptize and teach them to keep my commands. Jesus does not say: if it suits you, could you please go and baptize. He says: Go, baptize, teach.

So the will of Jesus our Lord is that all are baptized into this new covenant where we are saved by grace. Faith and baptism are 2 sides of the same coin and should not be treated as two different issues, they are interconnected and indivisible

Nor did He say this is my "law" and if you do not get baptised I am sending you to hell. The thief on the cross was not baptised, the women at the well was not told to go get baptized as soon as you leave here. You are making God's grace law.

Does that mean that you reject the letters of Paul, Peter & John?. They all make claims of how we are to live as christians. In a sense a law for christian life. We are to imitate Christ. We are to be light and salt in this fallen world. When you read Acts, do we not see the apostles baptizing the new christians? Why, because Jesus gave his last Commandment (law) just before ascending to heaven. Go, teach, baptize

Let me be clear. I am not saying that you need to be baptized to be saved. You give 2 examples of that. But I am saying that Jesus told us to do it, and as such it os not optional to us. Jesus expects us to follow his commandment. He is our Lord, and we are his servants. He commands, we obey, even if it does not make any sense to us

That is my point. No one is not saying baptism is not scriptural I am saying it is NOT mandatory; it is a matter of looking at these letters in the light of who Jesus is; not the law of the NT which there is no such thing. He was not an OT Priest who's agenda was the law.

What light are we when we make God's grace... LAW. I gave you a prime examples where nothing was mentioned of baptism; the thief on the cross did not jumb down from the cross and get baptisted; Jesus for gave him and told him this day you will be in paradise. This example just broke your law to pieces and so did the cross.

One problem for me is, that you seem to build dogma based on examples, instead of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus made a new covenant with us. We are saved by grace, but as with any covenant there are some terms to be fulfilled. In the new covenant the term is to belive and baptize. I know God is not limited to this, but we are. God can save the unbaptized, because He is God, but we as his servants, must follow his bidding, his will. I belive that is also why Jesus sent the holy spirit to us, so that he would help us to remember all that Jesus had said and done, and to live accordingly

The Holy Spirits mission was to lead and guide us into all truth and not to start a NT Law. A Son hears, a servant does not. religious man hears man and His religion; But a spiritual man hears God's Spirit with in. The narrow way is not the way of religion that is the broad way, the narrow way is Christ with no religious baggage. There is no room in the narrow way for baggage.

But you just said that truth is only an aspect. How can the holy spirit guide you to an aspect? Is it not more likely that guide us into all truth, means guide us to Jesus, as he is the way, truth and life?

[Benoni]

bareslehm wrote:

But you just said that truth is only an aspect. How can the holy spirit guide you to an aspect?

I am not following your line of thought here?

Is it not more likely that guide us into all truth, means guide us to Jesus, as he is the way, truth and life?

If we are already following Jesus and we have the Spirit of Truth in us then why do we need the Spirit of Truth to guide us to Jesus. It is the truth or the deep revelation of God's Word we need to be guided in. Look around you do you see one church as the Bible declares without spot or wrinkle or do you see 22,000 systems of man all claiming to have the truth? We definitely need God's Spirit to lead and Guide us into all truth.

[Benoni]

1Pe 3:21a The like figure whereunto even *** baptism doth also now save us... ***

Fact: Here, Apostle Peter, using as an analogy, how the water lifted up the ark and saved Noah, the waters of baptism "DOTH NOW ALSO SAVE US."

Rom 6
4 *** Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: *** that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For *** IF *** we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
8 Now *** IF *** we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Fact: Apostle Paul states that baptism buries or plants us into death with Christ.
Fact: TWICE the Apostle says *** IF *** we have taken this course of action, we shall we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection and that we believe that we shall also live with him.

Act 10
47 *** Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, *** which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48a And *** he commanded them to be baptized *** in the name of the Lord.

Fact: Apostle Peter *** COMMANDED *** them to be baptized, unlike pastors today who will say you're saved as soon as you "accept Christ" and never even mention baptism.

Act 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, *** and *** ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ***


Fact: Apostle Peter said to *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU ***
Fact: Apostle Peter said to be baptized *** FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, ***
Fact: Apostle Peter said "*** and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost***" (which is a requirement of NT salvation) predicated upon the understanding that you repent and be baptized.


Act 2
41 Then they that *** gladly received his word were baptized:*** and the same day there were *** added unto them about three thousand souls. ***
Act 8
12 *** But when they believed *** Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, *** they were baptized, both men and women. ***

Fact: Believing the preached word in the NT church example was followed by baptism, not a handshake.

Act 22
16 *** And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, *** calling on the name of the Lord.

Fact: The Apostle Paul, when he believed, was first asked, "WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?" (paraphrased)
Fact: The Apostle Paul, when he believed, was instructed to *** arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS. ***

Compare Jesus' instructions with Peter's:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, *** Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ***

Act 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, *** and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Fact: Jesus and Peter BOTH made a primary issue in their ministries of being born of the water and Spirit. Jesus said without it you *** cannot enter into the kingdom of God *** and Peter said it was *** FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. ***

Fact: Never ONCE do we see the Apostles telling ANYONE to simply "accept Christ as their personal Savior" to obtain salvation as most churches do today.

Here we conclude there is a large gulf between the Apostles' teachings on baptism and modern day religiosity. Don't we need to follow a pastor that teaches what the Apostles and the NT church teaches, not a contrary message? It's a salvation issue.

FACT..

Wow you can quote Bible verses.. here is another part of a verse you keep forgetting.."the letter killeth' You are killing God's grace with your NT Law of Moses.

The thief on the cross ruled out your NT law on Baptism.. So did the cross.

[McCulloch]

Is repentance optional? Luke 13:3
Is public confession optional? Matthew 10:32-33

Why treat baptism differently?

Yes repentance is optional, confession is optional; God is not calling the whole world NOW so until God calls them they cannot repent or confess.

I don't understand.

"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. "

The meaning here is rather plain. Do not repent and perish. Repent and you may not perish. It is really really hard for me to see how repentance could be optional in this context.

"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven. "

Likewise in this passage. The meaning is rather obvious. Jesus says that those who confess him before men, he will confess before his Father. Deny him before men and he will deny you before the Father.

Now, you can say what you will about legalism, but it really does not apply. No one is saying that if you do this and that that you earn or merit salvation. The very plain message throughout the New Testament is that the salvation offered to humans through Jesus is not merited, it is not earned, it is not deserved. That is the meaning of grace, it is a gift. But it is not a gift without strings or obligations.

The thief on the cross ruled out your NT law on Baptism.. So did the cross.

No one who believes the New Testament denies that Jesus had the authority to directly forgive sins. He did so even in his last hours on the cross. Since his resurrection, his own instructions, the teachings and examples of the apostles all consistently argue against the optionality of baptism. Not as a legally required ticket to heaven, but as one who is faithful to keep all of his commandments.

[Benoni]

McCulloch wrote:

I have not taken the time for Luke 13:3 but look what happens when you look beyond another fundie's favorite. I would be glad to look a lttle later time is short but I am sure I would find the same results.



The letter killeth, that is why God’s Word tells us to seek, ask and knock.


Let us look a little closer at this awesome verse especially the Strong’s Concordances reference <9999 >, it is worse then 666.

(KJV) John 3 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should (not perish,) should be omitted), but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that (whosoever, should be "all") (believeth, should be that "all believing") in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The following are a direct quote from Strong’s Concordance.

John 3:15
<9999 > should
<9999 > not
<9999 > perish,
<9999 > but

NT:9999

9999 inserted word (x);

This word was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text.


Now we will look at a passage in the New Testament; viz., that precious declaration in John 3:16,

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son," etc. We will take into consideration verses 14-17 inclusive; first I will clear up several points of obscurity and error and then give the rendering as it should be.

In verse 15 the words "not perish but" should be omitted; according to the best authorities they have been interpolated, probably from the following verse; they are left out from the New Version.

Strong's Whosoever 3956 pas (pas);including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: KJV-- all (manner of, means), alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

The word "whosoever" in the l5th and l6th verses should be rendered "all"; in the original it is the word usually rendered all throughout the New Testament; it occurs hundreds of times, and it is rendered
"all" in over nine hundred instances, and whosoever in only about forty; the rendering all then is plainly the usual one.

The word rendered "believeth," in the original is a participle, "believing"; the clause should read, "that all, believing in him should not," etc. The words, "believing in him," are explanatory, telling us how "all" are to be saved, viz, by believing in him. In the common version it will be noticed that the participle is, without authority, rendered by the verb "believeth," and the words, "whosoever believeth in him" are thereby made to have a conditional force, as though it read, if they believe in him, implying that some will not believe in him, and hence will perish, and be lost eternally.

But this is not a correct rendering of the original, as I have shown above; the clause is not conditional, but is thrown in, as a participial form, as explanatory of the manner of the world's salvation, by believing in him; this view is fully confirmed by the l9th verse; "for God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved."

Might be saved: Stong's 4982 sozo (sode'-zo); from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): KJV-- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be
(make) whole. The word “might� was added by the translator

Now I will give the whole passage as it ought to be.

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up, that all,
believing in him. might have æonial life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,
that all, believing in him, might not perish, but have æonial life. For God sent not his Son into the world
to condemn the world but that the world through him be saved."

Thus truthfully translated this passage is one of the grandest and most sweeping declarations of the final universal triumph of God's grace in the salvation of the world, contained in the Bible. It is positive and direct, and mighty enough, could they only appreciate it, to utterly silence all those narrow, shortsighted souls who think that God will only gain a partial victory over the devil, that he will not save the world, but only a portion of it, a vast number being eternally lost. It is very plain why the translators of the common version handled this passage as they did. Their creed would not allow them to accept it just as it reads; it required only a slight change to make it conform to their own idea. They insert the unusual rendering "whosoever," change believing to "believeth," and then, punctuating it accordingly, the passage is "tinkered" so as to harmonize with the creed. Thank God for deliverance from man made creeds!

"Let God be true, though every man be false" (Rom. 3:4).

Young’s Literal John 3:14 `And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up, 15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. 17 For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

[SpiritQuickens]

1Pe 3:21a The like figure whereunto even *** baptism doth also now save us... ***

Fact: Here, Apostle Peter, using as an analogy, how the water lifted up the ark and saved Noah, the waters of baptism "DOTH NOW ALSO SAVE US."

Rom 6
4 *** Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: *** that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For *** IF *** we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
8 Now *** IF *** we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Fact: Apostle Paul states that baptism buries or plants us into death with Christ.
Fact: TWICE the Apostle says *** IF *** we have taken this course of action, we shall we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection and that we believe that we shall also live with him.

Act 10
47 *** Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, *** which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48a And *** he commanded them to be baptized *** in the name of the Lord.

Fact: Apostle Peter *** COMMANDED *** them to be baptized, unlike pastors today who will say you're saved as soon as you "accept Christ" and never even mention baptism.

Act 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, *** and *** ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ***


Fact: Apostle Peter said to *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU ***
Fact: Apostle Peter said to be baptized *** FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, ***
Fact: Apostle Peter said "*** and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost***" (which is a requirement of NT salvation) predicated upon the understanding that you repent and be baptized.


Act 2
41 Then they that *** gladly received his word were baptized:*** and the same day there were *** added unto them about three thousand souls. ***
Act 8
12 *** But when they believed *** Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, *** they were baptized, both men and women. ***

Fact: Believing the preached word in the NT church example was followed by baptism, not a handshake.

Act 22
16 *** And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, *** calling on the name of the Lord.

Fact: The Apostle Paul, when he believed, was first asked, "WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?" (paraphrased)
Fact: The Apostle Paul, when he believed, was instructed to *** arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS. ***

Compare Jesus' instructions with Peter's:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, *** Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ***

Act 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, *** and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Fact: Jesus and Peter BOTH made a primary issue in their ministries of being born of the water and Spirit. Jesus said without it you *** cannot enter into the kingdom of God *** and Peter said it was *** FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. ***

Fact: Never ONCE do we see the Apostles telling ANYONE to simply "accept Christ as their personal Savior" to obtain salvation as most churches do today.

Here we conclude there is a large gulf between the Apostles' teachings on baptism and modern day religiosity. Don't we need to follow a pastor that teaches what the Apostles and the NT church teaches, not a contrary message? It's a salvation issue.

If by baptism being necessary for salvation, you mean that, a believer can be on his way to be baptized, and then die in a car accident and go to hell because they weren't immersed in/sprinkled by water - no, that is unbiblical and blasphemous. Baptism is "necessary", insofar as it is, in the words of Charles Hodge, a "necessity of precept, not the necessity of a means sine qua non." Baptism is a demonstration of obedience, just like any other work.

It is unique, of course, in that it's the sign and seal of the New Covenant, replacing circumcision (Col. 2:11-12), and contempt of baptism demonstrates that they are not, and never have been, saved, but believing without having gotten a chance to be baptized does not send you to hell. Things look much bleaker for the person who would insist otherwise, than for the believer who was prevented from being baptized by an act of God.

Acts 2:38 does not teach the necessity of baptism for salvation (again, unless we're talking about contempt of baptism, in which case, it's not a case of not having been baptized which damns the person, but a case of such a person manifesting their rejection of the Triune God through refusing to obey His commands (Jhn. 14:15)). A straightforward reading of an English translation certainly makes it look like that, but it must be kept in mind that in Greek, word order is (with few exceptions) irrelevant. Syntactic concord takes precedence and determines the meaning. In this case, Peter's command to "repent" is a second person plural verb, and syntactically agrees with "for the remission of sins." The two are causally linked.
To "repent" (which involves turning from sin and trusting in Christ for the remission of our sins) causes us to be forensically justified before God (i.e., we experience the remission of our sins). Baptism is an act of obedience just like any work (though again, it is unique in that it is the sign and seal of the covenant). "let him be baptized" is in the third person singular. It is a parenthetical statement that has no syntactic concord with either of the aforementioned phrases. The idea that being water baptized causes us to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit is simply not there.
Notice what else Peter says within the same context:

"38And Peter said to them,(A) "Repent and(B) be baptized every one of you(C) in the name of Jesus Christ(D) for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive(E) the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For(F) the promise is for you and(G) for your children and for all(H) who are far off, everyone(I) whom the Lord our God calls to himself.""

Peter says that "the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to Himself"(v. 41). In other words, it is those who are called who are the recipients of the Holy Spirit, and the forgiveness of sins. Notice how the word is used throughout Scripture:
"28And we know that for those who love God all things work together(A) for good,[a] for(B) those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he(C) foreknew he also(D) predestined(E) to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be(F) the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also(G) justified, and those whom he justified he also(H) glorified."-Rom. 8:28-30.
Paul qualifies his description of the fate of those who love God as "those who are called according to His purpose." In other words, those whom God has called, on the basis of whatever He has sovereignly decreed will pass.

"6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham(O) because they are his offspring, but(P) "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." 8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but(Q) the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9For this is what the promise said:(R) "About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son." 10And not only so, but(S) also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of(T) him who calls— 12she was told,(U) "The older will serve the younger." 13As it is written,(V) "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.""-Rom. 9:6-13.

"in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of Him who calls" - Paul here qualifies His mention of God's "purpose of election" with "not because of works, but because of Him who calls." It is only those whom God has called who are chosen. Compare this with Rom. 11:5-6. Instead of contrasting "works" with God's "call", He contrasts "works" with being "chosen." God's "call" and being "chosen" are interchangeable for Paul.

"23but we preach Christ(A) crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ(B) the power of God and(C) the wisdom of God."-1 Cor. 1:23-24.

Paul makes a distinction between those who are called and those who are not called. It is only those who are called, who respond to the invitation to believe in Christ, rather than reject it as foolishness.

I also encourage you to investigate the other places in which the word "call" (and its related variants) are used (Rom. 1:7, Gal. 1:15, Heb. 9:15, Jude 1, Rev. 17:14, etc.).

Peter has also just quoted Joel 2:32 in his Pentecost sermon. But he doesn't quote the whole thing.

"32And it shall come to pass that(BY) everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.(BZ) For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among(CA) the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls."-Joel 2:32.

The broader context teaches the complete opposite of what you are arguing.
"16And now why do you wait?(A) Rise and be baptized and(B) wash away your sins,(C) calling on his name.'"-Acts 22:14.

I suggest you read Robertson's A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research. He points out that the participle "calling on his name" ought to be associated with its nearest verb. This means that "calling on his name" is causally linked to "wash away your sins." Calling on his name causes your sins to be washed away, which is symbolized through baptism. Also, read this passage in its context.

"14And he said,(A) 'The God of our fathers(B) appointed you to know his will,(C) to see(D) the Righteous One and(E) to hear a voice from his mouth; 15for(F) you will be a witness for him to everyone of what(G) you have seen and heard. 16And now why do you wait?(H) Rise and be baptized and(I) wash away your sins,(J) calling on his name.'"-Acts 22:14-16.

Again, here we have Paul being chosen by God. See also Acts 9:15, in which Paul is called a "chosen vessel", and Galatians 1:15 and Romans 1:1 is attached to Paul's ministry as an apostle (used salvifically elsewhere, as I've pointed out before).

It confuses me that those who teach the necessity of baptism for salvation quote from Acts so much, even as it so consistently teaches the opposite – in this case and others:

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and(A) glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."-Acts 13:48.
What's even more bizarre is that you've used text in your own post which refutes your argument:

"44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days."-Acts 10:44-48.

The Holy Spirit enters them, and they believe. Peter then commands then to be baptized AFTER they had already been saved. That they had already been saved at this point is clear, since we're told in Acts 15:9 that their hearts had been cleansed by faith. They had the Holy Spirit before they were baptized, and as those who had the Holy Spirit, they were already saved (Rom. 8:9). Indeed, Paul tells us in Romans 4:11 what faith is, and the relation of faith and salvation to the reception of the sign and seal of the covenant.

"9Is this blessing then only for(H) the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised?(I) We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11(J) He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was(K) to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised."-Rom. 4:9-12.

Paul could hardly be more emphatic. Abraham was already declared right with God through belief, before he had been circumcised. What if he had not been circumcised? It's a non-issue, because Paul tells us that Abraham was counted righteous before God the very moment he believed (Gen. 15:6) and was only circumcised afterwards, as a sign and seal of the righteousness he had received before he believed. Nor would Abraham have refused circumcision, since his election caused him to obey (Gen. 18:19).

The Hebrew verb for "known" here is used in a similar way by Paul in Rom. 8:29 in talking about the elect. Notice that Rom. 8:29 speaks of only one category of those whom God has "foreknown" - those who are saved. For God to "know" someone in this way refers to Him entering into an intimate, covenantal relationship with them, causing them to believe, and irrevocably securing their redemption, "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable"(Rom. 11:29).

Notice that Paul is able to declare that Abraham was justified by faith even in light of passages like these:

"Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.�-Gen. 17:14.

"Now it came about at the lodging place on the way that the LORD met him and sought to put him to death."-Ex. 4:24.

Clearly, the Old Testament takes circumcision, as the sign and seal of the covenant, very seriously. Contempt of circumcision or baptism manifests an unregenerate heart (lack of either does not withhold salvation). Yet God's chosen are declared right with God before they are actually baptized. So, the fact that baptism is not necessary for salvation the way you seem to be implying, does not mean that it’s “optional�, which is what you seem to imply would otherwise result. You are setting up a false dichotomy – either baptism is necessary for salvation, or it means absolutely nothing. This is simply false, as we see very explicitly in Scipture.

I would also direct those who would insist on the necessity of baptism to salvation to Galatians. Paul is dealing in this letter with those who are insisting that circumcision is necessary for salvation, and that unless you are circumcised, you cannot be saved. Look at what Paul says:

"1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you?(A) It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly(B) portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this:(C) Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by(D) hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish?(E) Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by[a] the flesh? 4(F) Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and(G) works miracles among you do so(H) by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as(I) Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?"-Gal. 3:1-6.

Paul again quotes Gen. 15:6, in verse 6, concerning Abraham's righteousness which he received before he was circumcised. Paul criticizes those who are accepting the alternate gospel (which is no gospel at all - Gal. 1:8-9) for teaching salvation by faith and works. Because they are teaching that there is something after believing, which one must do in order to finally secure one's redemption, Paul pronounces a curse on such people (Gal. 1:8-9). It is Christ's blood alone which justifies. To add anything to it is to invoke God's wrath. Paul's language is very strong:

"1For(A) freedom Christ has(B) set us free;(C) stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to(D) a yoke of(E) slavery.
2Look: I, Paul, say to you that(F) if you accept circumcision,(G) Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that(H) he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4You are(I) severed from Christ,(J) you who would be justified[a] by the law;(K) you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly(L) wait for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus(M) neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but(N) only faith working through love.

7(O) You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying(P) the truth? 8This persuasion is not from(Q) him who calls you. 9(R) A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10(S) I have confidence in the Lord that you will(T) take no other view than mine, and(U) the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. 11But if I, brothers, still preach[c] circumcision,(V) why am I still being persecuted? In that case(W) the offense of the cross has been removed. 12I wish(X) those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!"-Gal. 5:1-12.

I love verse 12. He expresses his desire that his opponents remove their reproductive organs during the process of the circumcision to which they attribute so much importance. Let he who has ears, hear.

I would direct your attention especially to verses 1-4. Paul declares frankly that those who teach that there is something one must do after believing in order to actually be saved, can expect nothing but God's wrath. He argues in the first four verses that those who teach this, are obligated to keep the entire law perfectly, which is the prerequisite to salvation apart from Christ's imputed perfect obedience (Gal. 3:10-13). Those who add anything to Christ, can expect nothing but God's eternal, unrelenting, anger. They will be tormented in the presence of Christ and the holy angels, day and night, without rest, forever. (Rev. 14:10).

John 3:5 is by far the easiest to answer:

"1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named(A) Nicodemus,(B) a ruler of the Jews. 2This man came to Jesus[a](C) by night and said to him,(D) "Rabbi,(E) we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do(F) unless God is with him." 3Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is(G) born(H) again he cannot(I) see the kingdom of God." 4Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born(J) of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6(K) That which is born of the flesh is(L) flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7(M) Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You[d] must be born(N) again.' 8(O) The wind[e] blows(P) where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

9Nicodemus said to him,(Q) "How can these things be?" 10Jesus answered him, "Are you the teacher of Israel(R) and yet you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I say to you,(S) we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13(T) No one has(U) ascended into heaven except(V) he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14And(W) as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man(X) be lifted up, 15that whoever believes(Y) in him(Z) may have eternal life.[h]"-John 3:1-15.

Jesus' comment about being born of water and Spirit is a reference to Ezekiel 36:
"22"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD:(AT) It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name,(AU) which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. 23(AV) And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them.(AW) And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. 24(AX) I will take you(AY) from the nations and gather you from all the countries and(AZ) bring you into your own land. 25(BA) I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from(BB) all your uncleannesses, and(BC) from all your idols(BD) I will cleanse you. 26And I will give you(BE) a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27(BF) And I will put my Spirit within you,(BG) and cause you to walk in my statutes and(BH) be careful to obey my rules."-Ezekiel 36:22-28.

God will cause His people to obey His rules, by giving them a new heart. Regeneration causes faith. The reference to "water" here is in line with the Jewish association of water with cleansing. It's metaphorical language. As a 1st century Rabbi, Nicodemus' knowledge of the OT would have been extraordinary. However, he expresses disbelief at Jesus' assertion of the necessity of a new birth ("How can these things be?"). Nicodemus' disbelief stems from his belief, common among Jews of his time, that simply being ethnically Jewish (except in cases of exceptional evil or deliberate apostasy) was enough to acquire salvation.

Jesus asks rhetorically "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?" as an expression of shock and dismay at Nicodemus' ignorance. Despite the fact that he probably would have memorized the entire Old Testament, he seems to have been ignorant of the necessity of a new birth, a common OT teaching (e.g., Deut. 10:16, 30:6, Jer. 4:4). If Jesus is talking about New Testament baptism, His shock and dismay makes absolutely no sense. John would then have Jesus saying "Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand Christian baptismal theology?" How could Nicodemus have understood something not yet revealed? Your interpretation makes absolutely no sense.

Also note the emphasis on God's sovereignty in the pericope from which you're quoting. "The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from, or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit"(John. 3:8). Baptism does not regenerate us. The Holy Spirit does, Who is administered according to God's sovereign will (cf. Matt. 11:25-27, Luke 10:21-22, John 5:21). Even the ordering of the pericopes here are telling. Jesus FIRST talks about rebirth (Jhn. 3:1-15), and only after that, faith (Jhn. 3:16-21). Once again, the broader context of the passage you're quoting proves the complete opposite of what you're arguing.

Our reception of the Holy Spirit happens at about the same time as we believe (Eph. 1:13-14) (though logically prior, since it causes faith). Baptism does not cause rebirth, the Word of God does (1 Pet. 1:23, Jas. 1:18). Baptism does not wash us, the Word of God does (Eph. 5:26).

I find it odd that so many people use Rom. 6:3-4 as a proof-text for the necessity of baptism for salvation. Paul could be talking about either water baptism, or Spirit-baptism. Neither interpretation leads to your conclusion. Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 10:2 that the Israelites had been baptized into Moses. If we are insisting that Paul's language in Rom. 6:3-4 (or, for that matter, Gal. 3:26-29) must be speaking of a water baptism through which we are grafted into Christ, then, if we're going to be consistent, we must say the same thing about the "baptism" of the Israelites by the Red Sea, meaning that the Old Covenant Jews were in mystical union with Moses. I seriously doubt you are willing to accept that conclusion. If it is talking about water baptism, Paul's point simply concerns what the rite symbolizes. There is no need or justification for pressing the language the way you do.
My inclination, in any case, is toward Spirit baptism. Jesus refers to His own crucifixion as a "baptism", and assures His apostles that they will partake of something similar (Luke 12:50, Mark 10:38-39).

Paul is concerned with the spiritual meaning of Jesus' language, what they signify for us. Jesus' "baptism", in this instance, was not a literal baptism. Paul was likely not talking about literal baptism in Rom. 6:3-4 or Gal. 3:26-29 anymore than he was speaking of literal crucifixion in Gal. 2:16, 6:14. We are buried with Him in His (spiritual) baptism (Rom. 6:3-4, Gal. 3:26-29), crucified with Him in His (spiritual) crucifixion (Gal. 2:20, 6:14), we were raised and then ascended with Him (spiritually) in His ascension (Col. 3:1), and are seated with Him (spiritually) (Eph. 1:20, 2:6).

As for 1 Peter 3:21 – I can’t believe how many people are put off by this passage. Yet again, it teaches the complete opposite of what you’re saying it teaches.
“and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[a] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ�(1 Pet. 3:21).
Baptism does save you! Spirit baptism

“…not the removal of dirt from the body� – i.e., not water baptism – “…but the pledge of a good conscience toward God� – i.e., the faith and rebirth which it symbolizes.

I encourage you to repent of your false doctrine. Salvation is by grace, through faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9). Baptism signifies, signs, and seals the righteousness we attain by Christ alone. God saves you, through the blood of Christ. He does not need you to be baptized for this – though He does command it to be done after you are saved. I do not envy anyone who teaches such a thing, of having to answer for God on Judgment Day.

[rsvp]

[quote="Benoni]
Nor did He say this is my "law" and if you do not get baptised I am sending you to hell. The thief on the cross was not baptised, the women at the well was not told to go get baptized as soon as you leave here. You are making God's grace law.[/quote]


How do you know the theif on the cross or the woman at the well wasn't baptized? That is an assumption. Besides, they both were living under the Old Law.

[Slopeshoulder]

1Pe 3:21a The like figure whereunto even *** baptism doth also now save us... ***

Fact: Here, Apostle Peter, using as an analogy, how the water lifted up the ark and saved Noah, the waters of baptism "DOTH NOW ALSO SAVE US."

Rom 6
4 *** Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: *** that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For *** IF *** we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
8 Now *** IF *** we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Fact: Apostle Paul states that baptism buries or plants us into death with Christ.
Fact: TWICE the Apostle says *** IF *** we have taken this course of action, we shall we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection and that we believe that we shall also live with him.

Act 10
47 *** Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, *** which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48a And *** he commanded them to be baptized *** in the name of the Lord.

Fact: Apostle Peter *** COMMANDED *** them to be baptized, unlike pastors today who will say you're saved as soon as you "accept Christ" and never even mention baptism.

Act 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, *** and *** ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ***


Fact: Apostle Peter said to *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU ***
Fact: Apostle Peter said to be baptized *** FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, ***
Fact: Apostle Peter said "*** and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost***" (which is a requirement of NT salvation) predicated upon the understanding that you repent and be baptized.


Act 2
41 Then they that *** gladly received his word were baptized:*** and the same day there were *** added unto them about three thousand souls. ***
Act 8
12 *** But when they believed *** Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, *** they were baptized, both men and women. ***

Fact: Believing the preached word in the NT church example was followed by baptism, not a handshake.

Act 22
16 *** And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, *** calling on the name of the Lord.

Fact: The Apostle Paul, when he believed, was first asked, "WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?" (paraphrased)
Fact: The Apostle Paul, when he believed, was instructed to *** arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS. ***

Compare Jesus' instructions with Peter's:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, *** Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ***

Act 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and *** be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, *** and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Fact: Jesus and Peter BOTH made a primary issue in their ministries of being born of the water and Spirit. Jesus said without it you *** cannot enter into the kingdom of God *** and Peter said it was *** FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. ***

Fact: Never ONCE do we see the Apostles telling ANYONE to simply "accept Christ as their personal Savior" to obtain salvation as most churches do today.

Here we conclude there is a large gulf between the Apostles' teachings on baptism and modern day religiosity. Don't we need to follow a pastor that teaches what the Apostles and the NT church teaches, not a contrary message? It's a salvation issue.

FACT: Putting the word "fact" before a quote is not a substitute for credible and informed exegesis. It is merely a fallacious rhetorical device. And it has led me to not want to discuss let alone debate this topc with you.