Jesus is God

[For_The_Kingdom]

First of all, I never knew that so many suspected "unbelievers" in the Christian religion were so fascinated about whether or not Jesus is God. If you don't believe in Jesus or God, then why do you care? It blows my mind.

Anyway..

I have a Biblically simplistic way of proving that Jesus is God..

Argument from Perfection: The Bible is clear, Jesus was/is without sin (morally perfect). The argument goes like this..

1. Only God is without sin
2. Jesus is without sin
3. Therefore, Jesus is God

#1 is virtually undisputed. #2 is Biblical based on two immediate Scriptures..

a. 2 Corin 5:21 "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him".

b. Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin".

Now, the idea is; if you replace Jesus' name in #2 with ANY other name in Heaven or on Earth, the proposition becomes false and the entire syllogism is false.

The conclusion is simple; in order to be God, you must be without sin..and to be without sin, you must be God. Jesus meets/met those requirements, therefore, Jesus is God.

Argument from John 14:1-9: Long story short, Jesus was constantly preaching/lecturing about "The Father this, The Father that"...until Philip finally said "Lord, show us the Father, and that will be good enough"...and Jesus said, "He who has seen me has seen the Father".

Jesus is saying that seeing him is the same has seeing the Father...but if the Father is on SUCH A HIGH PEDESTAL and is light years ahead of any other entity in Heaven or on Earth, how dare Jesus say "He who has seen me has seen the Father".

In other words, if the Father took on human form and made his dwelling among us on Earth, his form would be Jesus.

If the Father is God, and Jesus said to see him is to see the Father, then Jesus must also be God. This just follows logically.

Argument from Hebrews 1:3: "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.."

This is the same reasoning applied to Heb 4 (above). If God is the holiest of all holiest, how can any other being come close, must less be the "exact representation" of his being?

How can you be the "exact representation" of someone that is the epitome of holiness/righteousness...unless you yourself is also the epitome of holiness/righteousness?

Actually, you can sum up all three arguments as the "Argument from Perfection"..and of course, there are plenty of other "Trinity proof" Scriptures that I can throw in there, but I wanted to attack this from a different angel.

And lastly, as much as these arguments harmonize, they are all independent...so even if you manage to wiggle your way out of one...you still have to deal with the others.

Actually, there is no way out; Jesus is God, whether we like it or not.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 382 by brianbbs67]

To add to your point, the Holy Spirit is the "active force" by which God accomplishes everything He does. I think of it as His power (that He sends forth to do His will). He keeps every living thing alive by His Spirit, and everything in the universe working with precision.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 383 by Tcg]

John 14:26 speaks of the force FROM God that will help Jesus' disciples. God sends this power to cause the disciples to be able to understand important truths and bring back to their minds things that they were taught by Jesus.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 383 by Tcg]

John 14:26 speaks of the force FROM God that will help Jesus' disciples. God sends this power to cause the disciples to be able to understand important truths and bring back to their minds things that they were taught by Jesus.

RESPONSE:

First of all it is necessary to realize that nothing in the Gospel of John claims that he was the author. And he is referred to in the gospel in the third person.

Here we have a writing dating from about 95 AD. Jesus was executed in about 33 AD.

I understand that the average lifespan for a man in those days was 50 years.

So the John "speaks of" claim doesn't seem creditable.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 383 by Tcg]

John 14:26 speaks of the force FROM God that will help Jesus' disciples. God sends this power to cause the disciples to be able to understand important truths and bring back to their minds things that they were taught by Jesus.

No, he speaks of a being identified as the both the Advocate and the Holy Spirit. If Jesus was speaking of a force, he wouldn't have presented it as a maned b

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 383 by Tcg]

John 14:26 speaks of the force FROM God that will help Jesus' disciples. God sends this power to cause the disciples to be able to understand important truths and bring back to their minds things that they were taught by Jesus.

No Jesus does not speak of a force. He identifies a being named the Advocate whom the Father will send.



Tcg

[AgnosticBoy]

onewithhim said,
"Good observation. In addition to that, where does that leave the Son? He said that there was only one that is good---God. Not himself, but God. Now, who did Jesus think was God?

Clearly, he knew God to be his Father, as he mentioned in his prayer to his

Father: "YOU [are] the only true God." (John 17:3) He didn't include himself or the Holy Spirit. Jesus even called the Father "my God." (John 20:17; Mark 15:34; Revelation 3:12)

So, to conclude, if we call Jesus "God," we are contradicting Jesus himself."

"To add to your point, the Holy Spirit is the "active force" by which God accomplishes everything He does. I think of it as His power (that He sends forth to do His will). He keeps every living thing alive by His Spirit, and everything in the universe working with precision.


I see no reason to believe that the Holy Spirit refers to a "force". Even if the Holy Spirit is not God that doesn't automatically mean that this SPirit is not personal. Besides that, there's also plenty of biblical references where the Holy Spirit is referred to using personal pronouns like "HE" or "Him" (e.g. John 16:7, Ephesians 4:30). The Holy Spirit even has personal characteristics like "helping" or "grieving (e.g. Ephesians 4:30).

Like you, I see some problems with the Trinity doctrine but that doesn't mean that there's no evidence for it in the Bible.

[polonius]

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are human beings having a physical experience.

- Tcg of New Jersey

RESPONSE:

Yes. Indeed! - Polonius of New Jersey

[polonius]

For the KIngdom posted:

I have a Biblically simplistic way of proving that Jesus is God..

RESPONSE:

I gather you are referring to the New Testament.

Do you dispute the fact that the New Testament was written 40 to 65 years after the events it describes by non-witnesses who were attempting to found a new belief system?

[Elijah John]

For the KIngdom posted:

I have a Biblically simplistic way of proving that Jesus is God..

RESPONSE:

I gather you are referring to the New Testament.

Do you dispute the fact that the New Testament was written 40 to 65 years after the events it describes by non-witnesses who were attempting to found a new belief system?

But even the NT is contradictory and ambiguous on the question, at best. John 17.3 vs his prologue, for example.

[PinSeeker]

Maybe this will help:

Jesus is God's Christ ("Christ" being Jesus's title, rather than His last name...

To anoint means to ceremonially confer divine or holy office upon. This was done on a human level several times in the Old Testament; we see an example of this in Samuel's anointing of David as king of Israel.

But Jesus was (and is) God's Christ, His Anointed. God the Father, from all eternity, conferred divine office -- His own office, holy, the King of kings and Lord of lords -- upon Jesus, Who proceeds from the Father (the Greek word for "proceeds" is ekporeuomai, which means to come out of, and is used in many places in the New Testament). Jesus Christ is God... Immanuel (which literally means "God with us")... God the Son.

In like manner, the Holy Spirit, clearly referred to by Jesus in personal terms as a distinct being/person from God and Jesus in John 14, also proceeds from the Father. Additionally, the Spirit is referred to as holy, and only one being (God Himself) truly possesses holiness. Therefore, the Spirit is also God... God the Spirit.