Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:13 pm
tam wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:18 am
Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:49 pm
tam wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:55 pm
Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:24 pm
tam wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:57 pm
Peace to you,
First... assuming that these "independent Christians" (a title that you are incorrectly using to describe me) are wrong about something, this does NOT mean that you are right about not eating and drinking. Pointing out a wrong (or potential wrong) in someone else does not correct the wrong (or potential wrong) in yourself. It is just an attempt to deflect from your own wrong.
I wouldn't "attempt to deflect from my own wrong" because I am not wrong, so why would I try to "deflect" anything? I am simply pointing out what the Scriptures say. Instead of conceding that I may have a point, you go ahead with JW-bashing, if you will, to deflect from YOUR wrong.
And what wrong was that, owh?
We've been discussing it for a while now. I've made clear what I believe you are wrong about.
I see. So I am JW bashing if I point out a contradiction from your religion in relation to the words and commands of Christ, but you (all) are not 'catholic' bashing if you point out errors from their religion? I am JW bashing if I disagree with jws, explain why, and provide scriptural backing for what Christ commanded? But you (all) are not bashing me when you tell me I am wrong (without
ever once showing where I have contradicted Christ or where I have disobeyed Him), along with all manner of other things being said about my person or my faith?
I and others have shown you where you have contradicted Christ, over and again.
First: You have not. If you had, it would be easy to simply state it. Look tam, Christ said "a" and you are saying "b", and these two things contradict. Perhaps you find it too much work to go back and show where I have contradicted Christ...
simply because I have not contradicted Him. I can state simply where your religion contradicts Christ and have done so throughout this thread (and a few others). Christ said that anyone may eat and drink - your religion says that only a select few Christians may do so. Christ said that the apostles were to teach the disciples to obey every command that He gave them (the apostles - one such command is to eat and to drink and keep doing that in remembrance of Him)... and your religion teaches that most should NOT obey this command. Kjw even started a thread stating that 'those taking the lead' must teach the disciples to obey every single command of Christ... despite not seeing that it is his/her own religion that teaches its adherents NOT to obey every single command of Christ.
Second: are you sure you are not doing the same thing that you have said others are doing on at least one of your "[Jesus] is not God" threads. People keep responding with scriptures they believe prove the trinity
instead of directly addressing the verses you supplied in your OP.
Third: Are you withdrawing your 'jw bashing' accusation or are you conceding that jws do the same thing?
You don't want to see it. It's all because you neglect to agree that there are two groups with different destinies.
I cannot agree with something that Christ does not teach. The apostles did not teach this either. Even the bible does not teach it. There is no such thing (or teaching) from any of them as two Christians groups with different destinies.
It is clear that there are two groups, under one Shepherd. (John 10:16; Revelation 7:9,14)
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. Revelation 7:9
First: What in those verses states that there are
two groups with
two different destinies under one shepherd? I can see that it describes many sheep who would be called as having different
origins (
from every tribe, nation, people, language, 'sheep pens')... but all listening to the voice of Christ and becoming one flock with one shepherd. Nothing in there at all of 'different destinies'.
Second: the apostles heard these words themselves did they not? The disciples knew about these words themselves, did they not? Yet there was no such teaching as the wts 'two groups of Christians with two different destinies' doctrine. It appears that, like me, none of the apostles 'saw' what your religion is teaching. Because NO ONE taught or even hinted at what your religion teaches, despite knowing these words and verses. On the contrary, everything from the apostles and from Paul are of Christians being ONE flock (one group), under ONE Shepherd, with ONE hope.
Everyone ate and drank. The command from Christ to His apostles was to make disciples and teach them to obey every single command that Christ had given them (the apostles).
It is not that I cannot see what is written - you might want to consider (and take to Christ) that some are seeing what their religion has trained them to see. Because some are looking to religion instead of to Christ. The same as a Catholic may see the trinity because that is what their eyes have been trained to see
by their religion.
Third: One group; two groups; three groups; four...
this is all just a big distraction in the first place. Christ said that ANYONE can eat, that UNLESS one eats his flesh and drinks His blood, one has no life in them. Anyone does NOT mean 'some'; anyone does not mean 'only this group but not the other group'. Anyone means anyone. Christ also commanded the apostles to teach the disciples to obey everything that He commanded THEM. One of those commands is to eat His flesh and drink His blood, and to KEEP doing this in remembrance of me.
Yet you don't see two groups. Why is that?
1 - Because there is nothing that speaks of two groups in that verse, but rather only of different places that Christians would
come from. Christ spoke of more that He had yet to call, but who would ALSO listen to His voice and become ONE FLOCK. (Please note just
whose voice they would be listening TO.)
2 - Because everything written in the NT speaks of all Christians being the Church, members of the Body of Christ, with one hope. NO ONE taught that there is a second class/group of Christians who would NOT be the brothers of Christ or the Body of Christ or the Church or the Bride.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
One body,
one faith,
one hope,
one flock.
NO one went around telling people that they could NOT be part of the Body of Christ or His brothers or His church.
Christ himself said there are two groups, as you can see if you looked up the scriptures I cited here.
As you can see, I did look them up (I always do, just in case I have missed anything, but also because the verses so rarely support what is being claimed). Christ said nothing about two groups of Christians, some being His brothers not, some being His Body and others not, some being His Church and others not, each having different destinies. He spoke of different origins of Christians (more than just two). But He never taught what your religion teaches. Neither did the apostles, nor Paul, nor anyone in what is written.
Why does that not raise a big red flag for you? Especially when the wts uses their doctrine to keep people FROM doing one of the things that Christ commanded: eat His flesh and drink His blood?
Peace again to you.
