Is a fear of Satan irrational?

[Diagoras]

“The Devil made me do it� is a well-known phrase that people often associate with movies and courtrooms. The idea that Satan (the Devil, Lucifer, etc.) somehow has the power to possess people, and direct or persuade them to act against their own will and against the will of God.

The contention here is: it’s not made especially clear in the Bible what powers Satan possesses. To then ascribe him powers of directing people to evil acts, and of being constantly on the lookout for ways to ‘turn’ people away from God suggests a near-omnipotent, omniscient entity. Yet, the few details about him that we can glean from the Bible don’t seem to support that picture.

Therefore, are those who fear Satan being irrational, as they cannot know with certainty whether he possesses enough power to harm them?

I can easily predict the non-theist’s answer, but am genuinely curious to hear theist arguments for or against. Hence posting in this forum rather than C&A to hopefully reach more Christian views and learn from them.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 26 by William]

William:
1) What truth do you think Satan was trying to bring to Humanity, and 1a)what prevented this from occurring?
2) Why - as simply an idea - should the idea of Satan be feared?

1) There are two potential answers: a) truth about God and what God's hiding &/or b) bringing us closer to the natural world (depending on which belief you follow; the biblical satan or the one many worship)
1) The spreading of fear about him (lies?)

2) If the idea that he's evil and a deceiver is true, that is something that people should be fearful of

In what way is the belief that Satan exists, and needs to be feared, a dangerous idea?

See #2 above

What do you understand is the difference between "the biblical satan" and "the one many worship"?

We all know the biblical satan.
But there are people that worship satan saying he's not what the bible indicates (quite the opposite) from what I've seen personally. Rather or not they're right is independent of the fact that there seems to be, at least, 2 versions of satan

Just as there are at least two versions of every con-artist, who wants to take you for a seeming joyride that ends up in penury or in bondage.

Satan is a liar and a deceiver, and a master at presenting himself and his minions as angels of light.

Surely, if an idea is true, it is no longer just an idea, but in fact some form of reality.

Reality is skewed many times when it comes to belief so I suppose it depends on who you ask.

Who you ask will depend on who has a good record, as far as you know from your own life journey, of being reliable and trustworthy, and of having not been born yesterday.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 26 by William]

William:
1) What truth do you think Satan was trying to bring to Humanity, and 1a)what prevented this from occurring?
2) Why - as simply an idea - should the idea of Satan be feared?

1) There are two potential answers: a) truth about God and what God's hiding &/or b) bringing us closer to the natural world (depending on which belief you follow; the biblical satan or the one many worship)
1) The spreading of fear about him (lies?)

2) If the idea that he's evil and a deceiver is true, that is something that people should be fearful of

In what way is the belief that Satan exists, and needs to be feared, a dangerous idea?

See #2 above

What do you understand is the difference between "the biblical satan" and "the one many worship"?

We all know the biblical satan.
But there are people that worship satan saying he's not what the bible indicates (quite the opposite) from what I've seen personally. Rather or not they're right is independent of the fact that there seems to be, at least, 2 versions of satan

Just as there are at least two versions of every con-artist, who wants to take you for a seeming joyride that ends up in penury or in bondage.

Satan is a liar and a deceiver, and a master at presenting himself and his minions as angels of light.

Surely, if an idea is true, it is no longer just an idea, but in fact some form of reality.

Reality is skewed many times when it comes to belief so I suppose it depends on who you ask.

Who you ask will depend on who has a good record, as far as you know from your own life journey, of being reliable and trustworthy, and of having not been born yesterday.

Who is asked depends on who is there being asked. Picking someone to ask based on one's own personal ideology isn't an 'honest ask'. But if that's what you want (not an honest ask) that's fine. You just have to admit that.
So not only does it depend on who is asked, it also depends on the outcome you want it seems.
I assumed you'd want a more well rounded sample. Perhaps that was my mistake - not everyone wants that.

[Yahwehismywitness]

Satan is a spirit that knows the bible but does not obey instead he tries to imitate because he wants Yahweh's throne

Satan has been a murderer and a liar from the beginning. John 8:44,
Where did Satan come from? Satan was once an angel in heaven. Revelation 12:7-9,. “And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.�
Ezekiel 28:17, NIV. “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.�

Satan, known as Lucifer before he sinned, wanted to be equal with Yahweh. Isaiah 14:12-14, . “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . . . For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of Yahweh; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’�

Satan wants to be worshiped as the ruler of this earth. Matthew 4:8-9. “Again, the devil took Him [Jesus] up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, ‘All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.’ �

Jesus spent about 1/3 of his time casting out demons. Jesus had disagreements with 7 churches in Revelation 2

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 33 by Yehwahismywitness]

Satan is insane.

[Diagoras]

Satan is a spirit that knows the bible but does not obey instead he tries to imitate because he wants Yahweh's throne.

Satan has been a murderer and a liar from the beginning. John 8:44,
Where did Satan come from? Satan was once an angel in heaven.

Can I direct you to this article? From quite a few more biblical sources, the author comes to a different conclusion: that the ‘idea’ of Satan grew up from the original role of ‘accuser’ (the literal meaning of the word ‘satan’ in ancient Hebrew).

Satan, known as Lucifer before he sinned, wanted to be equal with Yahweh. Isaiah 14:12-14, . “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . . .

The name ‘Lucifer’ has been mostly associated with the planet Venus, as it’s translated loosely to ‘light-bringer’. The planet Venus is known as the morning star and its motions in the sky fit very well with a story of some ‘heavenly being’ attempting to reach the highest point of heaven, but ultimately being cast down to earth. There are other gods and goddesses in different ancient cultures that show this: Inanna in Sumerian stories, as well as Ishtar and also Etana in Babylonian ones.
Yet another story, this time from ancient Canaanites has the ‘morning star’ as the god Attar, who tried to wrestle the throne from the Canaanite’s chief god, Ba'al but once again failed and so was cast down to instead rule the underworld.

It makes sense that ancient tribes living well before Galileo and Copernicus would resort to tales of gods to make sense of the light in the sky that moved so differently from the other ‘heavenly bodies’. That early Christian sects would appropriate (through conquest) and adapt such tales is not such a bold, nor unsupported claim. And indeed, the very changeable nature of the ‘devil’ in all his supposed forms lends credence to the theory that the ‘personification of evil’ throughout the bible has evolved to fit the needs of the culture. Witness the dramatic increase in the fear of witches during the years of the ‘Black Death’, as well as the incorporation of certain pagan myths (Pan, especially) to give the Devil his horns and forked tail.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 35 by Diagoras]

Yes, christianity's demonology is all based on false gods and pagan names. Take Baelzebub. Means Baal the prince. A false god but hardly a daemon. There are many more of this type.

Speaking of which, Lucifer is a misnomer by people unfamiliar with Greek. It means the bringer of light.

There is an Adversary, but the rest of this junk is just whoogity-boogity stuff.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 35 by Diagoras]

Yes, christianity's demonology is all based on false gods and pagan names. Take Baelzebub. Means Baal the prince. A false god but hardly a daemon. There are many more of this type.

Speaking of which, Lucifer is a misnomer by people unfamiliar with Greek. It means the bringer of light.

There is an Adversary, but the rest of this junk is just whoogity-boogity stuff.

Yes, there is an Adversary, God's enemy, and ours.

Yeah, forget the whoogity boogity stuff, and tell us the truth about the reality of the Adversary, his strengths and weaknesses, and his final comeuppance that awaits.

You can do it!

[Yahwehismywitness]

[Replying to post 37 by Checkpoint]

One adversary what about: he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12:7-12

That equals more than one

[Yahwehismywitness]

https://www.rd.com/culture/real-life-exorcisms/

12 Real Life Exorcisms That Actually Happened

[Yahwehismywitness]

Abaddon angel of the bottomless pit in Greek Apollon Abaddon is described as the king of an army of locusts; his name is first transcribed in Greek (Revelation 9:11—"whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, The Angel of Death") as Ἀβαδδὼν, and then translated ("which in Greek means the Destroyer", Ἀπολλ�ων, Apollyon).

Apollyon - Who Is This?

In Revelation 9 we read of a king of the bottomless pit named Apollyon:

https://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/37 ... study.html