Is there meaning in the Lord's Prayer?

[marco]

We are told that Jesus recommended a format of address to God. If we examine it carefully, what do we find?

The prayer is composed of direct commands:
Give us! Forgive us! Lead us not! Deliver us!

and commands in the subjunctive mood:


"Let your name be holy; let your kingdom come; let your will be done."


The direct commands mean very little: we get from life what life gives, regardless of whether we address God or not. It is highly unlikely that reciters of the prayer ever find themselves " delivered from evil". They prayed in war time and war continued.

The appeals for God's name to be holy, and for his will to be done as conscientiously on Earth as it is in heaven - are pretty pieces of meaningless poetry.

The same results would have been achieved had Jesus simply offered:

Dear God, I love you a lot. Thanks.

Does the prayer turn folk into reciters of empty words?

If we believe in God, is there a better way of addressing him?

[JehovahsWitness]

Therefore, it is not necessary that a son call his father by his name. In fact, it is frequently considered dishonorable for a son to address his father by his name.

Emphasis MINE


Are you suggesting that calling God by his name is "unnecessary", even "dishonorable"? Is that the point you are making?



JW

[De Maria]

Therefore, it is not necessary that a son call his father by his name. In fact, it is frequently considered dishonorable for a son to address his father by his name.

Emphasis MINE

Are you suggesting that calling God by his name is "unnecessary",

Correct.

even "dishonorable"? Is that the point you are making?

Yes. Scripture says:

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Furthermore, I say that you have some sort of agenda which you're pushing but which you haven't identified, in order to make yourself seem authoritative. But the fact that you haven't identified your agenda means that you're afraid you won't be able to defend it.

So, I've answered every question you've asked me. Now, answer the questions I asked you. This is a debate, not an interrogation.

What does "hallow" God's name mean to you?
Why does it offend you when people don't mention God's name with every stroke of the pen?

[De Maria]

[Replying to post 29 by De Maria]

Yes I did read your post, you said to "hallow" God's name we should worshipped it, revere it, recognize it and proclaimed but apparently not actually USE it

You've misunderstood. Again, because you're functioning based upon an unspoken agenda which leads you to misrepresent everything that is being said.

So, to answer your accusation, you're wrong. We can and do use it. We can and do revere it, recognize it and proclaim it. But His Children address Him by the endearment that we were taught to use by His eternal Son. We call Him, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

....because those that actually address God by his name prove they are placing themselves {quote} ..." outside of His home.".

You are still wrong.

By insisting on using only God's name and belittling and decrying the advice to call Him our Father. The two have to be in place. Since there are some of His Children who do address Him by His name. But none of His Children reject or belittle the habit of addressing Him as Father.

Since most believers want to be inside Gods home, would that not mean mean they should proclaim it and praise it, revere it, but refrain from using it in prayer, religious song and worship and I presume conversation?

Since this is your straw man, you can answer it anyway you want.

Catholics and most Christians call God Father and sometimes call out to God by His glorious name. We find it especially necessary to use His Name when we are explaining to some people that Jesus is Yahweh.

[JehovahsWitness]

We can and do use it. We can and do revere it, recognize it and proclaim it.

Except when we are talking to Him in prayer? Correct? The Name has no place in the personal or public prayers of the faithful, is that correct? So just to clarify, we can use Gods name when speaking about him but it would be disrespectful to address him in prayer using his name.

If so, what about song? Would it be disrespectful to sing a song addresses to God using his name?

For example a song that has the line ...

"We sing to You O Yahweh"

Would that be disrespectful?




JW

[JehovahsWitness]

By insisting on using only God's name and belittling and decrying the advice to call Him our Father. The two have to be in place.

Emphasis MINE


Can you show me where I insisted on using ONLY God's name?


JW

[De Maria]

By insisting on using only God's name and belittling and decrying the advice to call Him our Father. The two have to be in place.

Emphasis MINE


Can you show me where I insisted on using ONLY God's name?


JW

If you're not insisting on using ONLY God's name, to what are you objecting?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 36 by De Maria]

You are the one speaking about disrespect, I am seeking clarification on when it would be disrespectful to use the Divine Name. (See above post # 34 by JehovahsWitness).


JW

[De Maria]

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS?

We can and do use it. We can and do revere it, recognize it and proclaim it.

Except when we are talking to Him in prayer? Correct?

Wrong.

The Name has no place in the personal or public prayers of the faithful, is that correct?

You said that, I didn't.

So just to clarify, ....

You insist on putting words in my mouth and then arguing against THE WORDS THAT YOU PUT IN MY MOUTH.

Why don't you simply answer my questions and reveal your hidden agenda?

"We sing to You O Yahweh"

Would that be disrespectful?

No.

Answer my questions.

[JehovahsWitness]

Okay so let's tie up the loose ends...


CALLING GOD BY HIS NAME IS DISSHONORABLE* AND UNNECESSAY



*(sorry I said "disrespectful" but the word you actually used was "dishonourable", my bad)

Therefore, it is not necessary that a son call his father by his name. In fact, it is frequently considered dishonorable for a son to address his father by his name.

Emphasis MINE

Are you suggesting that calling God by his name is "unnecessary",

Correct.

even "dishonorable"? Is that the point you are making?

Yes. {snip}

However (feel free to correct any inaccuracies in (a) (b) (c) ), if I understand you correcttly it would not be "dishonorable" and "unnecessary" to ...

a) pray to Him addressing him by his name.
b) sing religious songs to Him using his name
c) speak about him to others using his name

Given the above can you enlighten me WHEN it would be "dishonorable" and "unnecessary" to use Gods name in reverential* discourse or worship?



* I take it you are not suggesting that reverential use in any of these settings would be prohibited by Exodus 20:7

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]


Given that you seem to saying one can indeed

a) Pray to God using his name
b) Sing religious songs to Him in respectful worship using his name
c) speak to others about him in respectful discourse using his name

Pray tell in what circumstances does the following statement apply?

You calling God by his name places you outside of His home. We call God, Abba, because we are His children.

* I take it you are not suggesting that reverential use in any of these settings would be prohibited by Exodus 20:7




JW