What does this verse prove?

[Elijah John]

I, even I, am YHVH; and beside me there is no savior.
King James Version

For debate:

What does this verse prove, Biblically?

Does it prove that Jesus is YHVH?

Or does it prove that YHVH, not Jesus, is the Savior?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 29 by 2timothy316]

Interesting. A similar situation is described in the OT. That is spiritual beings having children with human women. Do you believe the Holy Spirit transformed into a being that could engage in copulation or was the sperm just transferred miraculously to Mary's ovum?



Genesis 6:1-4 New International Version (NIV)

Wickedness in the World
6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.�

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

The account seems to indicate that this action wasn't approved of by God. The NT described these spirits as being punished for their actions.


Jude 5-6 New International Version (NIV)

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[a] at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Why would God engage in the same practice he condemned others for?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 29 by 2timothy316]

Interesting. A similar situation is described in the OT. That is spiritual beings having children with human women. Do you believe the Holy Spirit transformed into a being that could engage in copulation or was the sperm just transferred miraculously to Mary's ovum?

There is no mention in the Bible record of Mary being with a man at all. Materialized angel or otherwise.

The Bible lists Jehovah as the creator of all things. (Gen 1:1)
He made the whole universe, even the space-time continuum. He most certainly can get a woman pregnant if He wishes without the need for a man. How exactly Jehovah would be nice to know but not important enough to speculate.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 31 by 2timothy316]

I didn't indicate a "man". Are you indicating that no ovum was involved either? If an ovum was involved how did it acquire the needed genetic material to create an embryo?

God created but he created the physical universe. A physical sperm is needed to combine with the female egg.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 31 by 2timothy316]

I didn't indicate a "man". Are you indicating that no ovum was involved either? If an ovum was involved how did it acquire the needed genetic material to create an embryo?

I don't know. The Bible doesn't say and I see no need to speculate.

God created but he created the physical universe.

He created that physical universe from nothing. Dirt, light, gravity, time, all of it from nothing. He also created the spiritual universe and the we don't even know what that means exactly. All we know is that we cannot measure it with physical means.

A physical sperm is needed to combine with the female egg.

For humans yes. For God, not necessarily since He made all life from nothing.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 33 by 2timothy316]

But Jesus was still in a physical body that had the full set of chromosomes?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 33 by 2timothy316]

But Jesus was still in a physical body that had the full set of chromosomes?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 33 by 2timothy316]

But Jesus was still in a physical body that had the full set of chromosomes?

The Bible calls him a man, so yes he'd have chromosomes.
Chromosomes are made of DNA.
DNA is made of molecules called nucleotides.
Those molecules are made of atoms.
Atoms are made of electrons, neutrons and protons.

Everything is made of the same stuff. Can't the being that made all this stuff command it to form whatever, whenever, and wherever He pleases?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 36 by 2timothy316]

Sure. But if Jesus was made of half of Mary's the other half would still be a human genome. Unless you're indicating that Mary didn't contribute an egg and God created Jesus entirely?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 36 by 2timothy316]

Sure. But if Jesus was made of half of Mary's the other half would still be a human genome. Unless you're indicating that Mary didn't contribute an egg and God created Jesus entirely?

I have no problem half the genetic material was from Mary. It would have to be in order for Jesus to be a true descendant of David and Abraham. God can create half of it and Mary the other half. Even the eggs found in women are made from nothing more than atoms provided by that embryonic growing process. Jehovah does not have to have another person to create another person. Remember Eve came from a small amount of genetic material from Adam. Adam didn't come from a female's womb at all but from lifeless dirt.

So I don't know what you think 'must' happen for a woman to become pregnant of for another human to be made, but when it comes to Jehovah clearly the Bible says all things are possible. (Matthew 19:26) And His knowledge of the stuff we are made of is far superior than our understanding.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 38 by 2timothy316]
I believe a second set of chromosomes is required to fertilize an egg. Even if that second set is divinely created they must be combined with the egg in order that a human being can be born.