Was Jesus a Jew? Or is he God? How can he be both?
To see Jesus as God, it seems to me we need to wrench him out of his Jewish context and culture.
Otherwise, where in Judaism, (even the Judaism of Jesus own day) is it believed or taught that God "incarnates Himself" into human form?
Was Jesus a Jew? Or is he God?
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Elijah John
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Was Jesus a Jew? Or is he God?
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Post #31
[Replying to post 30 by JehovahsWitness]
It seems that you were resisting the concept that Jesus existed in s different form prior to being born?
It seems that you were resisting the concept that Jesus existed in s different form prior to being born?
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #32
I am at a loss where you got this idea but whatever the case let me be very clear, I strongly believe that Jesus "existed in s different form prior to being born".postroad wrote: [Replying to post 30 by JehovahsWitness]
It seems that you were resisting the concept that Jesus existed in s different form prior to being born?
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
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William
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Re: Was Jesus a Jew? Or is he God?
Post #33[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
The culture of Judaism thinks of this as 'blasphemy' as far as I can tell, so I can see in that, how someone arguing from that position would be unable to think in other ways.
William: "Namaste Elijah John! The GOD I AM recognizes the GOD in You Are."
Elijah John: "_________________..."
It certainly seems apparent in the stories to do with Jesus, that he was one for getting folk to think outside the box of Judaism.
I remember you remaining silent when I questioned you on the claim that Judaism was the best way in which to 'see' "GOD" Elijah John. I still have not seen you answer to the questioned claim.
Perhaps this is not the sub-forum to be asking such questions because of the allowed presumption that the Bible is authoritative and also just happens to include an apparent Judaic cultural tradition.
But then, how is it that you are allowed to question whether Jesus is GOD? The bible say so, does it not?
Panentheism has it that we are all "GOD" in the sense of the collective as well as the individuate.Was Jesus a Jew? Or is he God? How can he be both?
To see Jesus as God, it seems to me we need to wrench him out of his Jewish context and culture.
Otherwise, where in Judaism, (even the Judaism of Jesus own day) is it believed or taught that God "incarnates Himself" into human form?
The culture of Judaism thinks of this as 'blasphemy' as far as I can tell, so I can see in that, how someone arguing from that position would be unable to think in other ways.
William: "Namaste Elijah John! The GOD I AM recognizes the GOD in You Are."
Elijah John: "_________________..."
It certainly seems apparent in the stories to do with Jesus, that he was one for getting folk to think outside the box of Judaism.
I remember you remaining silent when I questioned you on the claim that Judaism was the best way in which to 'see' "GOD" Elijah John. I still have not seen you answer to the questioned claim.
Perhaps this is not the sub-forum to be asking such questions because of the allowed presumption that the Bible is authoritative and also just happens to include an apparent Judaic cultural tradition.
But then, how is it that you are allowed to question whether Jesus is GOD? The bible say so, does it not?
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Elijah John
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Re: Was Jesus a Jew? Or is he God?
Post #34They, (we) are not unable to think in "other ways". We just do not accept those "other ways". Big difference.William wrote:
Panentheism has it that we are all "GOD" in the sense of the collective as well as the individuate.
The culture of Judaism thinks of this as 'blasphemy' as far as I can tell, so I can see in that, how someone arguing from that position would be unable to think in other ways.
Not sure what you are talking about here. Namaste??William wrote: William: "Namaste Elijah John! The GOD I AM recognizes the GOD in You Are."
Elijah John: "_________________..."
Maybe so, but I do not see any evidence that Jesus was advocating "panetheism". Jesus was a Shema-believing Monotheistic Jew. It's in Mark.William wrote: It certainly seems apparent in the stories to do with Jesus, that he was one for getting folk to think outside the box of Judaism
I think ethical monotheism is the best way to view God. How's that? Is there a code of ethics in panentheism?William wrote: I remember you remaining silent when I questioned you on the claim that Judaism was the best way in which to 'see' "GOD" Elijah John. I still have not seen you answer to the questioned claim.
Also, no one is obligated to answer anyone on this site.
No it doesn't. Certainly not in the Hebrew Bible /"Old"Testament. And for every verse in the New Testament which suggests Jesus is God, there is another which identifies the Father alone as God. Namely, John 17.3, 1 Timothy 2.5, and most of Paul's apostolic salutations.William wrote: Perhaps this is not the sub-forum to be asking such questions because of the allowed presumption that the Bible is authoritative and also just happens to include an apparent Judaic cultural tradition.
But then, how is it that you are allowed to question whether Jesus is GOD? The bible say so, does it not?
Where does it ever say (even in the New Testament) these three simple words, "Jesus is God"? It doesn't.
But the "Old" Testament repeatedly says plainly and simply "YHVH is God". (Psalm 100.3 for just one example) Why isn't the New Testament just as plain and clear in the supposed claim that "Jesus is God".
Not sure if I've asked you specifically these questions before, but do you have answers for these questions?
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Post #36
William wrote:
Panentheism has it that we are all "GOD" in the sense of the collective as well as the individuate......
I remember you remaining silent when I questioned you on the claim that Judaism was the best way in which to 'see' "GOD" Elijah John. I still have not seen you answer to the questioned claim.......
But then, how is it that you are allowed to question whether Jesus is GOD? The bible say so, does it not?
Moderator Clarification
Hello William, let me clarify. The subject is about Jesus being a Jew not a panentheist. Also, a poster isn't obliged to reply to questions. But your namaste is a pleasant gesture in the direction of civility.
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Moderator clarifications do not count as a strike against any posters. They serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received and/or are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels a clarification of the rules is required.
