Christianity and Abortion

[Kenyon]

As I understand it, christian doctrine provides for exactly two ways to get into heaven: making the choice to accept Jesus as your savior, or dying young enough not be held accountable for this choice.

If that's true, all aborted babies would go to heaven. Alternatively, if none of the babies were aborted, some would grow up to accept Jesus as their savior, and some would not. Thus, some would go to heaven, and some would go to hell.

If the overarching goal of Christianity is to get as many souls into heaven as possible, it would seem that abortion is actually aligned with that goal.

[cholland]

Where does it say that he does, other than David thinking he did? A specified case for a king and a prophet does not translate to everyone. Can you show it does?

More importantly, can you show that 'knowing' a prophet or a king 'in the womb' is a prohibition against all abortions?

So he doesn't know? Are you Jewish or atheist? I'm just curious since they kind of conflict with each other and you're part of both usergroups.

[Kenyon]

No, I am not questioning his justice. I am assuming for the sake of argument that he is in fact infinitely just, and then making the reasonable conclusion that an infinitely just God would accept innocent children into heaven, rather than condemning them to hell. You stated that you believe innocent children go to heaven, so on some level you must consider this a reasonable conclusion as well.

It's a reasonable conclusion, but we are attributing our justice to God. If he decides to do opposite of our conclusion - (a) we are now forced to question his justice and (b) our conclusion led to the condemnation of billions of children.

I would indeed question the justice of a god who condemned innocent children to an eternity of torment.

Your two posts above certainly suggest to me that you agree with my original premise regarding the two ways to get into heaven, even considering your point that the bible does not explicitly support the second (which I don't dispute). If I am mistaken, correct me- what precisely would you consider the way or ways to get into heaven?

There is only one way that I find in Scripture - through the narrow gate.

If the choice to accept Jesus Christ is the one way to get into heaven, then that would imply that aborted babies will not make it into heaven because they aren't capable of making such a choice. You can't have it both ways.

[cholland]

There is only one way that I find in Scripture - through the narrow gate.

If the choice to accept Jesus Christ is the one way to get into heaven, then that would imply that aborted babies will not make it into heaven because they aren't capable of making such a choice. You can't have it both ways.

I don't know about "accepting Jesus" - don't find that in Scripture. I said enter through the narrow gate.

As far as children, God can definitely use Christ's sacrifice in order to justify children's sin nature. Will God do this to all children for all time? I'm torn since in the OT I find entire cities and nations being destroyed including children. Did they go to heaven and their parents went to hell?

I feel the same way about the Jewish people. Even though Jesus Christ is not their Lord, they are still God's people and I can't sit here and say all of those promises he made to them were made null at the cross. I believe there will be a future redemption of Israel.

[FinalEnigma]

Where does it say that he does, other than David thinking he did? A specified case for a king and a prophet does not translate to everyone. Can you show it does?

More importantly, can you show that 'knowing' a prophet or a king 'in the womb' is a prohibition against all abortions?

So he doesn't know? Are you Jewish or atheist? I'm just curious since they kind of conflict with each other and you're part of both usergroups.

Jewish and atheist do not conflict. Judaism is not just a religion, it is a tradition, a culture, and a people as well. You can be a part of any of those without being a part of the others and be a Jew(although being a part of only the religious part does not make you a Jew, ironically.).

There are even branches of Judaism which accept atheistic conversions.

[myth-one.com]

The end (Heaven) does not justify the means (killing babies).

It has to many depressed Christian mothers in the past. For example, three weeks after drowning her five young children, Andrea Yates told psychiatrist Philip Resnick she had to kill the children to keep them from going to hell. "These were their innocent years. God would take them up."

And besides, a third premise is that everyone (including babies) is sinful from conception. So if you can point out a passage that excludes all children from being held accountable, I'm all ears.

NOTICE: I agree with the OP that all children go to heaven since they have no knowledge of their sin. However, my point is that we cannot be dogmatic about something Scripture is silent on.

But scripture is not silent on that subject. Sin is the transgression of God's laws, or commandments:

For sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:

To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

In their innocent years, implied none of Andrea Yates' children were sufficiently old or educated to recognize sinful actions. That is, they had no law. If they were to die before ever knowingly committing a sin, it is taught that their "souls" go immediately to heaven and live with God for eternity. Ask any Christian clergyman for verification that the children's souls are presently in heaven. That is exactly what I did. I emailed the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association asking where the five murdered children were. They responded that they did not know where the remains of the children were, then continued to state:

What is more important, however, is where the souls of these children are. God, in His mercy and love, watches over little children who are taken by death, and they go to be with Him in heaven.

Immediately after the murders of the Yates children, preachers rushed to their pulpits to announce that the children were with God in Heaven. Thus providing positive feedback that Mrs. Yates succeeded.

Second, you can't prove to me that the Bible teaches it's a direct path for every baby.

The Bible does not teach that. Sadly, we are taught that by pastors who we admire and respect!