Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

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Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Jude 1:9 Even the archangel Michael, when he argued with the Devil and fought over the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him. Instead, he said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”
Matthew 4
International Standard Version
Jesus is Tempted by Satan
4 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. 2 After fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, he finally became hungry.

3 Then the tempter came. “Since[a] you are the Son of God,” he said, “tell these stones to become loaves of bread.”

4 But he answered, “It is written,

‘One must not live on bread alone,
but on every word coming
out of the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the Devil took him to the Holy City and had him stand on the highest point of the Temple. 6 He told Jesus, “Since you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, because it is written,

‘God will put his angels in charge of you,’

and,

‘With their hands they will hold you up,
so that you will never hit your foot against a rock.’”

7 Jesus responded to him, “It is also written, ‘You must not tempt the Lord your God.’”

8 Once more the Devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, along with their splendor. 9 He told Jesus, “I will give you all these things if you will bow down and worship me!”

10 Then Jesus told him, “Go away, Satan! Because it is written,

‘You must worship the Lord your God
and serve only him.’”

11 So the Devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to him.

Michael does not rebuke Satan and says May the Lord rebuke you.
Jesus does rebuke Satan.

Therefore:
Jesus is not Michael.
Jesus is the Lord.
Jesus is God.

Does this prove Jesus is not Michael?
Does this prove Jesus is God?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:36 am
Jesus pre-existence is equal with God, before taking the form of a man.

Php 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
Php 2:7 Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.(GOD'S WORD)
The verse does not say the words equal with God .
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #22

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am
Capbook wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:36 am
Jesus pre-existence is equal with God, before taking the form of a man.

Php 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
Php 2:7 Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.(GOD'S WORD)
The verse does not say the words equal with God .
That's what God's Word version understand the verse in a thought for thought translation.

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #23

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:36 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 6:58 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 2:41 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:58 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:50 am
JacksonDeville wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #5]

Revelation 12 has Michael fighting Satan so it sounds like he is able to fight him in end times
Could it be that this Michael is Jesus that fights and defeat Satan in Revelation 12:7-8?

Yes, I believe that you are correct.
Thanks.
But can a man defeat Satan? This will also proves that Jesus is God.
Please explain just HOW that proves that Jesus is God. I don't see it. (And what "man" are you talking about?)
Jesus pre-existence is equal with God, before taking the form of a man.

Php 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
Php 2:7 Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.(GOD'S WORD)
Your Bible takes liberties with translation. It presents the thoughts of men who translated "GOD'S WORD," not what the passages actually say. The verse at Phil.2:6 does NOT say that "he was in the form of God and equal with God," except in your particular Bible version. Other Bible versions say something else:

"Although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil. 2:6, NASB)

"Though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Revised Standard Version)

"Though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." (New American Bible)

"Being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped." (NIV, considering a footnote)

I could go on, but I think you can see that your version has taken liberties in the translation and it doesn't say that Jesus was "equal with God."

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #24

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2024 5:37 pm
Capbook wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:36 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 6:58 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 2:41 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:58 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:50 am
JacksonDeville wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #5]

Revelation 12 has Michael fighting Satan so it sounds like he is able to fight him in end times
Could it be that this Michael is Jesus that fights and defeat Satan in Revelation 12:7-8?

Yes, I believe that you are correct.
Thanks.
But can a man defeat Satan? This will also proves that Jesus is God.
Please explain just HOW that proves that Jesus is God. I don't see it. (And what "man" are you talking about?)
Jesus pre-existence is equal with God, before taking the form of a man.

Php 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
Php 2:7 Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.(GOD'S WORD)
Your Bible takes liberties with translation. It presents the thoughts of men who translated "GOD'S WORD," not what the passages actually say. The verse at Phil.2:6 does NOT say that "he was in the form of God and equal with God," except in your particular Bible version. Other Bible versions say something else:

"Although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil. 2:6, NASB)

"Though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Revised Standard Version)

"Though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." (New American Bible)

"Being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped." (NIV, considering a footnote)

I could go on, but I think you can see that your version has taken liberties in the translation and it doesn't say that Jesus was "equal with God."
How do you understand "being in the form of God"?

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #25

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 4:19 am How do you understand "being in the form of God"?
That he was a spirit , just like God. (All spirits are not equal in position, power, are and rank).
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #26

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:36 am
Jesus pre-existence is equal with God, before taking the form of a man.
The bible says no such thing.
Capbook wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:36 am
Php 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version

It has entirely distorted the meaning by removing certain words and thoughts that appeared in the original text and replacing it with the translators idea.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #27

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 4:36 am
Capbook wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:36 am
Jesus pre-existence is equal with God, before taking the form of a man.
The bible says no such thing.
Capbook wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 12:36 am
Php 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version

It has entirely distorted the meaning by removing certain words and thoughts that appeared in the original text and replacing it with the translators idea.
That is a paraphrase translation.
May I know how you consider NWT, is it a word for word or paraphrase translation?

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #28

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:16 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version

It has entirely distorted the meaning by removing certain words and thoughts that appeared in the original text and replacing it with the translators idea.
That is a paraphrase translation. ...

Yes, and evidently not a very good one.





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JESUS , HIS TITLES and ...MICHAEL
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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #29

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:19 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:16 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version

It has entirely distorted the meaning by removing certain words and thoughts that appeared in the original text and replacing it with the translators idea.
That is a paraphrase translation. ...

Yes, and evidently not a very good one.
But the message is clear.

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #30

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:48 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:19 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:16 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version

It has entirely distorted the meaning by removing certain words and thoughts that appeared in the original text and replacing it with the translators idea.
That is a paraphrase translation. ...

Yes, and evidently not a very good one.
But the message is clear.
I prefer to refer to the orginal Greek as it makes things clearer than a paraphrase.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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