If Jesus is God...

[Elijah John]

If Jesus is God, why didn't he spend any time or energy demonstrating this claim, or attempting to convince people?

Jesus didn't go around preaching the doctrine that he was God, nor did he attempt to prove it.

Instead, Jesus preached the Father and His mercy, repentance and the Kingdom of God. And he went around healing people. But the healings do not prove that Jesus is God, if they actually happened.

The notion that a man is God is a mighty big claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Where's the extraordinary evidence?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 15 by Elijah John]

That thought of non-Davidic authorship crossed my mind as it seemed like a servant of David penned this. However, Christ accepted it, as Did Hillel, Shammai and nearly every other Pharisee or Jew. So, I accept it unless hard evidence disproves.

What I don't accept is the mystery concept of scripture started by Rome. If it can't be explained by scripture interpreting scripture, what good is the scripture?

[Zzyzx]

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[bjs]

And yet the Teacher (Christ) whom God sent us, said that David was the one speaking. Matt 22:42-45

Just about everywhere else in the book of Psalms the only Lord that King David knew was YHVH. Jesus is not YHVH. So the Psalm makes no sense if David penned it.

There is a fair debate about the Davidic authorship of Psalm 110. You are correct that “Lord� is used almost exclusively by David to refer to YHWH.

However, Jesus claimed that David wrote the Psalm, and the question was about what Jesus preached. So brian and Tam are correct that this is an example of Jesus preaching that he is God.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 23 by bjs]

However, Jesus claimed that David wrote the Psalm, and the question was about what Jesus preached. So brian and Tam are correct that this is an example of Jesus preaching that he is God.

Respectfully, it is no such example.

And, I don't know about brian but do know Tam does not believe Jesus is God.
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[bjs]

[Replying to post 23 by bjs]

However, Jesus claimed that David wrote the Psalm, and the question was about what Jesus preached. So brian and Tam are correct that this is an example of Jesus preaching that he is God.

Respectfully, it is no such example.

And, I don't know about brian but do know Tam does not believe Jesus is God.
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I’m not sure if just saying “no� qualifies as a meaningful response.

In the Psalm David* said that YHWH was speaking to “my (David’s) Lord.� The Messiah was called the son of David. Yet here David called the Messiah “my Lord,� giving him a title that David otherwise reserved solely for YHWH in the Psalms. Save some ad hoc response that God must have created some other “Lord� to justify the passage, the implication is that Jesus believed that David was putting the Messiah on the same level as YHWH.



*Or at least someone who Jesus said was David.

[Elijah John]

And yet the Teacher (Christ) whom God sent us, said that David was the one speaking. Matt 22:42-45

Just about everywhere else in the book of Psalms the only Lord that King David knew was YHVH. Jesus is not YHVH. So the Psalm makes no sense if David penned it.

There is a fair debate about the Davidic authorship of Psalm 110. You are correct that “Lord� is used almost exclusively by David to refer to YHWH.

However, Jesus claimed that David wrote the Psalm, and the question was about what Jesus preached. So brian and Tam are correct that this is an example of Jesus preaching that he is God.

Even so, (for the sake of argument) if Jesus was claiming that David was recognizing the Messiah as his "Lord" in the Psalm, how does it follow that Jesus was claiming he is God by citing the passage?

"Lord" (lower case) does not mean LORD, (YHVH). And YHVH alone is God. (Isaiah 45.5)

When Paul employed the term "our Lord Jesus Christ", did he mean " our God Jesus Christ"? If so, he was at odds with the Tanakh.

It would be good to get a Jewish perspective on the first few verses of Psalm 110. Anyone?

[quality]

[Replying to post 22 by Zzyzx]

I realize that the rules state to send this reply privately, but according to the rules I was not able to do that because I do not have enough posts. If I understand this right, part of your objection to my comments was the assertion that one has to be "Born Again" to be a Christian, which is clearly stated by Jesus Himself according to the Holy Bible in John 3:3.

However I was told in your moderator comment that I had the right to believe that (I wasn't aware I needed your permission to do that), but I am not allowed to articulate that belief in visual debate form. Sounds like a from of Progressive Socialism to me. Possibly a violation of my 1rst amendment rights also. Or once again, am I not allowed to state that either? You have people that actually list their religious beliefs on their posts, some of which I believe are outlandish, but I don't see them being moderated, as those beliefs still are listed.

Being P.C. vs the Truth of the Gospel do not mix and never will. Maybe some things you can think about objectively?

[ttruscott]

The notion that a man is God is a mighty big claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Where's the extraordinary evidence?

He was not here to PROVE He was GOD but to die for the sins of HIS elect. HE was not here to prove His deity but to encourage faith, an unproven hope, in GOD. Faith, the desire of hope that the focus of our faith is true, is strong enough for Christians to hold their need for proof in abeyance for the time being and to live by faith, not proof.

It is faith, not proof, that saves us from death: John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins." in which this word believe is S4100. pisteuó
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
and not the belief in something because it has been proven.

Those who are His He will not lose, [John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.], because He fulfills His promise of salvation in us by a gift, not as a reward for being perfect: Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

Thus it can be seen that the demand that we know by proof and that Christ failed somehow by not fulfilling the secular world's need for proof is an attack on our salvation by faith because if we follow it, we would deny faith.

We believe because we HOPE it is all true, not because it is proven to all be true. But as they say, a funny thing happened on the way to salvation as faith as hope matures into faith as conviction.

[bjs]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Perhaps you could tell me your understanding of the passage so that we could compare it with mine and see which is more reasonable and likely.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 23 by bjs]

Except, I am no longer sure Jesus is God. He is the Messiah. Seems more evidence points to not than is. Doesn't matter anyway, as YHVH always has forgiven. I accept His forgiveness, even if I don't understand His methods. Praise be to Jah!