Would the following text confirm the concept of divine dictation.
Luke 24:44-45 New International Version (NIV)
44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.�
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
Divine Dictation
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Re: Divine Dictation
Post #21[Replying to post 19 by Elijah John]
Then he is asking more if his followers than he gave.
Luke 6:29-31 New International Version (NIV)
29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
2 Corinthians 8:12-14 New International Version (NIV)
12 For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.
13 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. 14 At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality,
Then he is asking more if his followers than he gave.
Luke 6:29-31 New International Version (NIV)
29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
2 Corinthians 8:12-14 New International Version (NIV)
12 For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.
13 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. 14 At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality,
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tam
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Re: Divine Dictation
Post #22Peace to you,
Many profess to be Christian; that does not mean that many are Christian. Not that it matters as to how we are supposed to be treating our fellow man (even our enemies).
What is your point, postroad?
postroad wrote: [Replying to post 17 by tam]
I'm thinking that most of them would be Christians.
Im also thinking that most of the MAGA crowd identify as the same.
Many profess to be Christian; that does not mean that many are Christian. Not that it matters as to how we are supposed to be treating our fellow man (even our enemies).
What is your point, postroad?
Re: Divine Dictation
Post #23[Replying to post 22 by tam]
Believers represent Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
What is the skeptical observer to believe about the Spirit?
Are those who claim to be born of God through the Spirit slandering the Spirit by sinful
behaviour?
Hebrews 10:26-30 New International Version (NIV)
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,�[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.�
Believers represent Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
What is the skeptical observer to believe about the Spirit?
Are those who claim to be born of God through the Spirit slandering the Spirit by sinful
behaviour?
Hebrews 10:26-30 New International Version (NIV)
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,�[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.�
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tam
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Re: Divine Dictation
Post #24[Replying to post 23 by postroad]
I'm sorry, Postroad, but you seem to be jumping from point to point with no apparent connection. What does any of what you just posted have to do with what we were discussing?
Perhaps you did not understand what I had written? If you click on the link in my first post on this thread, there is greater explanation. Perhaps that will help?
Peace again to you.
I'm sorry, Postroad, but you seem to be jumping from point to point with no apparent connection. What does any of what you just posted have to do with what we were discussing?
Perhaps you did not understand what I had written? If you click on the link in my first post on this thread, there is greater explanation. Perhaps that will help?
Peace again to you.
Re: Divine Dictation
Post #25You indicated that there where individual who were damned because of their behaviour towards the poor.tam wrote: [Replying to post 23 by postroad]
I'm sorry, Postroad, but you seem to be jumping from point to point with no apparent connection. What does any of what you just posted have to do with what we were discussing?
Perhaps you did not understand what I had written? If you click on the link in my first post on this thread, there is greater explanation. Perhaps that will help?
Peace again to you.
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tam
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Re: Divine Dictation
Post #26postroad wrote:You indicated that there where individual who were damned because of their behaviour towards the poor.tam wrote: [Replying to post 23 by postroad]
I'm sorry, Postroad, but you seem to be jumping from point to point with no apparent connection. What does any of what you just posted have to do with what we were discussing?
Perhaps you did not understand what I had written? If you click on the link in my first post on this thread, there is greater explanation. Perhaps that will help?
Peace again to you.
I was countering your claim that the parable of the sheep and the goats indicated that people were 'damned' simply for rejecting His claims. That is not true, and that is not what the parable of the sheep and the goats tells us.
Peace again to you.
Divine dictation ? Or story telling?
Post #27Lets take an objective look at the content of the Gospels.
First of all, lets note that Jesus lived from about 1 to 30 AD. The first gospel (Marks) was written about 70 AD, Matthew and Luke were written about 80 AD, and John was written about 95 AD.
So at the earliest these were written 40 years or later after the fact.
None of the writers were apostles or witnesses to what they wrote about.
The purpose of the gospels was to popularize Jesus and make converts.
Question in an epistle, Corinthians 15, Paul (not an apostle nor a witness to the event he describes, tells that Jesus appeared to 500 people). If each told the story to say three people, there would be 500 witnesses, and 1500 who were told of the event. Yet none wrote anything about it, nor did any of the evangelists who wrote the Gospels.
Therefore what real evidence exists that Paul's story about an event that he didn't witness, is accurate historically?
We are told by those of the fundamentalist persuasion that 2 Timothy tells us that all scripture "is God breathed." Any body could have made such a claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles
“Most scholars agree that Paul really wrote seven of the Pauline epistles (not all 14), but that four of the epistles in Paul's name are pseudepigraphic (Ephesians, First Timothy, Second Timothy, and Titus[2]);�
The letters thought to be pseudepigraphic by about 80% of scholars:[2]
• Ephesians
• First Timothy
• Second Timothy
• Titus
In sum, when you read the supposed words of Jesus (or "divine dictation) in the Gospels note that the versions frequently change somewhat between gospels or are omitted entirely and those that exist were written at least 40 years after the fact by non-witnesses.
Are all these to be considered creditable historical documents?
First of all, lets note that Jesus lived from about 1 to 30 AD. The first gospel (Marks) was written about 70 AD, Matthew and Luke were written about 80 AD, and John was written about 95 AD.
So at the earliest these were written 40 years or later after the fact.
None of the writers were apostles or witnesses to what they wrote about.
The purpose of the gospels was to popularize Jesus and make converts.
Question in an epistle, Corinthians 15, Paul (not an apostle nor a witness to the event he describes, tells that Jesus appeared to 500 people). If each told the story to say three people, there would be 500 witnesses, and 1500 who were told of the event. Yet none wrote anything about it, nor did any of the evangelists who wrote the Gospels.
Therefore what real evidence exists that Paul's story about an event that he didn't witness, is accurate historically?
We are told by those of the fundamentalist persuasion that 2 Timothy tells us that all scripture "is God breathed." Any body could have made such a claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles
“Most scholars agree that Paul really wrote seven of the Pauline epistles (not all 14), but that four of the epistles in Paul's name are pseudepigraphic (Ephesians, First Timothy, Second Timothy, and Titus[2]);�
The letters thought to be pseudepigraphic by about 80% of scholars:[2]
• Ephesians
• First Timothy
• Second Timothy
• Titus
In sum, when you read the supposed words of Jesus (or "divine dictation) in the Gospels note that the versions frequently change somewhat between gospels or are omitted entirely and those that exist were written at least 40 years after the fact by non-witnesses.
Are all these to be considered creditable historical documents?
Last edited by polonius on Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Divine Dictation
Post #28[Replying to post 26 by tam]
Even though belief doesn't lead to an assured salvation the following text indicates that
not believing is a default state of damnation.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Denying the Son is denying God according to Christianity.
John 12:44-48 New International Version (NIV)
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
Which makes God the author of their damnation.
John 6:44-45 New International Version (NIV)
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[a] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Isaiah 54:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 All your children will be taught by the Lord,
and great will be their peace.
Which would make God And Jesus a liar.
Romans 11:7
What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened,
Luke 12:49-51 New International Version (NIV)
Not Peace but Division
49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
Even though belief doesn't lead to an assured salvation the following text indicates that
not believing is a default state of damnation.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Denying the Son is denying God according to Christianity.
John 12:44-48 New International Version (NIV)
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
Which makes God the author of their damnation.
John 6:44-45 New International Version (NIV)
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[a] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Isaiah 54:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 All your children will be taught by the Lord,
and great will be their peace.
Which would make God And Jesus a liar.
Romans 11:7
What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened,
Luke 12:49-51 New International Version (NIV)
Not Peace but Division
49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
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tam
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Re: Divine Dictation
Post #29[Replying to post 28 by postroad]
So you did not click the link?
The topic on that thread (which my post in the provided link responds to) is this:
"A Good God would not send to hell a decent person, simply for not believing in his son."
viewtopic.php?p=731804#731804
It goes through the meaning of the parable of the sheep and the goats.
Peace again to you.
So you did not click the link?
The topic on that thread (which my post in the provided link responds to) is this:
"A Good God would not send to hell a decent person, simply for not believing in his son."
viewtopic.php?p=731804#731804
It goes through the meaning of the parable of the sheep and the goats.
Peace again to you.
Re: Divine Dictation
Post #30[Replying to post 29 by tam]
A God that would harden national Israel against their salvation would be capable of anything.
A God that would harden national Israel against their salvation would be capable of anything.
