What did Christ Yeshua command us, part 1-Obey the Law

[brianbbs67]

I am compiling lists of what Jesus commanded us to do to follow him. They easily came under topics. The first I would like to explore is his command for all to follow the Law and Prophets. I used the four gospels only.

Here is Matthew:

5:14, 17-19 7:12-24 15:4-9 19:7 11:50 22:37-40 23:1-3

28:19-20

Mark:

1:44 7:8-13 10:2-12 10:19 12:29-31

Luke-Acts, 1:

4:4 4:8 4:12 5:14 8:21 10:26-28 11:28 16:16-18 16:29-31

17:10? 18:20

John :

5:45-47 6:45 7:19 8:17 10:34-38 14:15,21,23-24 15:10,25

These are verses where Jesus says follow the law or obey my commands. Which many of his commands were to uphold the Law. This list is not authoritative or probably fully complete. It came one evening as I read through the 4 Gospels completely and wrote down chapter and verse I says pertaining to the Law.

Looking at this alone. Why are we not following the Law that Christ told his followers to follow?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 20 by tam]

My mistake. Abrahams promise was about the actual physical land on which he stood.

God later voided this promise by declaring that the present earth and heavens were to be destroyed and replaced.

Jesus declared that his Kingdom was not of this earth.

Paul also confirmed that the old covenant and promises were only a shadow and were put aside in hopes for the better promises that were coming.

Therefore God misled Abraham knowing full well that no earthly fulfillment was ever coming.

[brianbbs67]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

He did fulfill the law. See definition C, here.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... lexResults

When did Christ command us the law was done away with himself?

Heaven and Earth remain. All the prophet's have not come to pass. So, not one Jot or tittle can pass from the law.

Did Christ proclaim ALL is finished or it(his part) is finished?

Okay, I have to ask a question about this. I know that elsewhere you (and others) have posted that the law can never pass away, and part (or most) of the reasoning used to support this is because God "is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow". Right?


So the verse under question is this:

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.



My question is:

If nothing will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished, does that not mean that at some point, "even the smallest letter, the least stroke of the pen" HAS or WILL disappear?


If so, will/does that mean God has changed? Or might it simply mean that the law had a specific purpose (to be a guardian leading to Christ viewtopic.php?p=953581#953581), a purpose for which it had served, once Christ came?





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

You have assumed correctly. If God is always the same and He says His law is forever, it is. the law has its purpose, Torah actually means Instruction. So the Torah is actually the owner's manual to life on this world. Till heaven and Earth and all the prophecies happen, it still is. Jesus was the sacrifice of the handwritings of ordinances against us. IE, God's divorce of israel. So, marraige being an eternal vow, can not be negated without the death of a partner . This was the "mystery" the Pharisees looked for years upon years. How could God take Isreal back after divorce? Peace to you, Tam

[postroad]

[Replying to post 22 by brianbbs67]

After the resurrection was Jesus still a Jew? Was he under the Law?

[myth-one.com]

Why are we not following the Law that Christ told his followers to follow?

Because we are no longer under the Law:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

============================================

Under the Old Testament covenant, the wages of sin was death, where sin is defined as disobeying the commandments or laws of God.

However, there was a fault in the first testament in that all mankind sinned! Consequently, no one could gain eternal life under that first testament. Since the first testament contained a fault, God created a second or New Testament:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

After Jesus died for us, we fell under the grace of Jesus Christ for our salvation, not our works to fulfill the law. So sin does not control our salvation:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

Upon creating a New Testament, the first testament became the Old Testament:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

The Old Testament vanished away and the New Testament become the active covenant or will upon the death of Jesus on the cross:

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth (Hebrews 9:15-17)

Once the New Testament became the active will, no one could gain eternal life by remaining sinless as required under the Old Testament.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Thus Christ taught that one should follow the law to gain salvation because the first covenant was in effect while He was alive.

After His death, His apostles and followers taught that the only path to salvation was accepting Jesus as our Savior under the New Testament.

Both Jesus and those teaching Christianity after His death taught the correct and only path to salvation at their times -- although different messages!

It's very interesting!

[brianbbs67]

Why are we not following the Law that Christ told his followers to follow?

Because we are no longer under the Law:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

============================================

Under the Old Testament covenant, the wages of sin was death, where sin is defined as disobeying the commandments or laws of God.

However, there was a fault in the first testament in that all mankind sinned! Consequently, no one could gain eternal life under that first testament. Since the first testament contained a fault, God created a second or New Testament:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

After Jesus died for us, we fell under the grace of Jesus Christ for our salvation, not our works to fulfill the law. So sin does not control our salvation:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

Upon creating a New Testament, the first testament became the Old Testament:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

The Old Testament vanished away and the New Testament become the active covenant or will upon the death of Jesus on the cross:

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth (Hebrews 9:15-17)

Once the New Testament became the active will, no one could gain eternal life by remaining sinless as required under the Old Testament.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Thus Christ taught that one should follow the law to gain salvation because the first covenant was in effect while He was alive.

After His death, His apostles and followers taught that the only path to salvation was accepting Jesus as our Savior under the New Testament.

Both Jesus and those teaching Christianity after His death taught the correct and only path to salvation at their times -- although different messages!

It's very interesting!

We are not under the Law of sin and death because that is the penalty side of the law. In Paul's own words, he teaches the law and prophets. Acts 24:14 is one example.

The fault was in man, not the law. How can law given by God be faulty?? This would mean God has faults.....

Of course we can't fulfill the law perfectly because we sin. The more excellent addition to the law was forgiveness thru Christ. So, there is only salvation thru Christ AND following his way(commands).

Look at Peter's warning about people twisting Paul's words to mean Not teaching the laws and prophets. 2 Peter 3:14-17

Also these concerning the law.

1 John 2:3-4
1 John 5:3
Rev. 22:9 and 14

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. His word is also. If the bible is inconsistent or God changes, then we should throw it all out as false or random babbling.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 24 by myth-one.com]
The Jerusalem church was teaching the end of the Law?

That would have got them killed if they still entered the Temple.



Acts 21:19-26 New International Version (NIV)

19 Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.�

26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.

New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

[myth-one.com]

How can law given by God be faulty??

The first covenant contained the fault -- Not the law!

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

There would have been no second testament and covenant if the first had been faultless.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 27 by myth-one.com]
Seems Paul found fault with the law as well.

Hebrews 7:19
(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 24 by myth-one.com]
The Jerusalem church was teaching the end of the Law?

That would have got them killed if they still entered the Temple.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

It got them killed and otherwise persecuted:

Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:

And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

==================================================

Hebrews 7:19
(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope (Jesus & the new covenant) is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 27 by myth-one.com]
Seems Paul found fault with the law as well.

Hebrews 7:19
(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

The law does not do to anyone anything. It is just the instructions for this world. The better hope is the sacrifice of Christ which grants us forgiveness from the curse of the law, which is death. Specifically, the second death. For it is given to a man to die once. The second death, the spiritual one, is the one to avoid. The law is not followed for salvation, for no man can save himself this way. We all fall short of the glory of God. Should we then sin? Heavens No! Following the law is only out of obedience and respect to the Father. Just because we will fail at times, does not mean we should not try to do what God has commanded. And the law is Liberty and not a burden or hard to follow, especially these days, where much of it is moot due to no Temple, current governments rules and the sacrifice of Christ ending ritual sacrifice for forgiveness of sins. If you want to draw nigh unto God, you have to draw nigh, so He will draw you nigh. You can't sit far away and hope to be close by chance.