The Bible Told Me So

[SeaPriestess]

How did the Southern Baptists who instituted, maintained and perpetuated slavery in the American South keep a clear conscience as Christians? And mind you, from 1882 to 1968 they were lynching on Saturday night and praising God on Sunday morning? Really? Yes, really.

Eph 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would show to Christ.

Col 3:22 Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

Col 4:1 Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.

Exodus 21 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.

Titus 2:9-10 Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior.

Yes, I know they have officially apologized. But during that time, were the consciences seared??
Is this a good example of how using the inerrant, infallible, God inspired holy scriptures can be used to justify evil devices, agendas, manifestos?

Should we be checking our conscience against scripture or the other way around?

lit·er·al·ism
ˈlidərəlizəm,ˈlitrəˌlizəm/
noun
the interpretation of words in their usual or most basic sense.
"biblical literalism"

[2timothy316]

The bible cannot justifiably be used to support the cruelty of the slave trade...

Yes it can because it does. Your denial doesn't change this fact.

The word 'justifiably' means 'with good reason' or 'capable of being justified'. The lack of understanding the word 'justifiable' doesn't change God's view on cruelty. So no, the Bible can't be used justifiably used to support cruelty of any kind toward anyone. Not even slaves. Though people try to use the Bible to justify cruelty, it doesn't hold water when the whole Law is read. Trying to justify doesn't mean it is justified. There is no commandment to be cruel. There is no commandment to have slaves. The Bible says, 'when you' and 'if you/should you' buy a slave there are certain rights that slave has. Being treated cruelly is never commanded. In fact a person that treated their slaves cruelly could find themselves put to death or severely punished.

[EarthScienceguy]

The same Bible that the Southern Baptist used to justify the enslavement of men is the same Bible that George Washington used to say this about slavery.

“I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of slavery.�

1st let’s contrast the difference between the slavery that African Americans suffered in the states and the “slavery� that is spoken of in the Bible.
This is what the Bible is speaking of when it talks of “slavery�.

Leviticus 25:39-42 I “If your brother with you becomes so poor that he sells himself to you, you are not to make him serve like a bond slave. Instead, he is to serve with you like a hired servant or a traveler who lives with you, until the year of jubilee. Then he and his children with him may leave to return to his family and his ancestor’s inheritance. Since they’re my servants whom I’ve brought out of the land of Egypt, they are not to be sold as slaves.�

Deuteronomy 15:11-14 There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore, I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land. If any of your people–Hebrew men or women–sell themselves to you and serve you six years, in the seventh year you must let them go free. And when you release them, do not send them away empty-handed. Supply them liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to them as the LORD your God has blessed you.

From these two passage at least two ideas are being taught.

• 1. If someone becomes so poor that all they have left is for them sell is themselves. So this type of “slaveryâ€� was used to so that the poor would not die of hunger.
  2. The “slave� always had a date that they would be freed.
  3. He is to be treated like a hired servant.
  4. He is not to be treated as an animal. He and his children. He and his family is to be fed and cared for. (this is the whole reason he went into service like this.)

In fact the Bible condemns those who engaged in slavery the way that was done in the west. The Bible those that engage in this type of slavery was to be Put to death.

Deuteronomy 24:7 If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.

Exodus 21:16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.

In the Biblical “slavery� is more like being employed by an employer. At no point is the man less than a man and there is a date at which he will be freed.

These passages and other is the reason why William Wilberforce fought so hard against slavery in England

You may choose to look the other way but you can never say again that you did not know.� ...

“We are too young to realize that certain things are impossible... ...

“If to be feelingly alive to the sufferings of my fellow-creatures is to be a fanatic, I am one of the most incurable fanatics ever permitted to be at large.�

Now those who did not follow the Bible used slavery in a different way. Like for example in the Roman Empire slaves were considered property and there was no difference between a slave and an animal. They could kill their slaves if they choose to.

So why did the Southern Baptist not interpret the Bible the way I described above? I have a one word answer “Sin�. The Bible says that

1 Timothy 6:10 “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.�

Many in the “Church� have done horrid things because of the love and money and power and they all have one thing in common. They all interpret scripture in a way to justify their love of money and power. Just like John 3:9 says

“And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.�

The problem is not that the Bible’s infallibility. The Bible is infallible and will always be infallible. The problem is that men love their sin more than they love Jesus.

[Tcg]

The same Bible that the Southern Baptist used to justify the enslavement of men is the same Bible that George Washington used to say this about slavery.

“I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of slavery.�

You mean the George Washington who inherited ten slaves at age eleven? The same Washington who owned 123 slaves at the time of his death and had 317 slaves working at Mount Vernon? He must have been very familiar with Leviticus 25:44-46.

2. The “slave� always had a date that they would be freed.

This is quite simply not true:

Leviticus 25:44-46

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

[Divine Insight]

It was just too many things, coincidences, complete weirdness quite frankly and it was very very clear in a most painful way. It was the ONLY thing that made sense and actually "worked" to solve the problem I had. It was radical and I can never forget it.

I don't question this at all. I too have had experiences that I could describe in precisely this same way.

Being an American, I grew up "christian" as part of my culture.

Exactly.

But the emotional romantic in me always has a soft spot for Jesus

No surprise there.

My only observation here is that if you had been raised in a society that believed in a Moon Goddess, then you would attribute your experience to the Moon Goddess, because you would have a soft spot for the Moon Goddess in that situation.

So your experiences most certainly can't be used to loan any support for Jesus being anything "special" other than the obvious fact that he was the chosen deity of the society in which you were raised. That's the only thing that makes him "special" in this situation. If you had been raised to believe in a Moon Goddess, then this would make her "special". And she would now be the one to be the focus of your endorsement.

[Divine Insight]

Leviticus 25:44-46

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

What amazing me is how theists can't see that these texts are a dead give-away that they were written by a culture that focuses on itself rather than being the word or instructions of some God who was supposedly the creator of all humans on planet earth.

Why would the creator of all humans be telling the Israelites that it's ok for them to ruthlessly enslave other humans as long as those other humans aren't Israelites?

I see scriptures like these as a dead give-away that these religious writings are the product of a specific man-made culture and clearly have nothing to do with any Creator God who had supposedly created all humans who live on planet earth.

This cultural religion gives itself away in the most obvious ways. Yet theists refuse to acknowledge this. Instead, they choose to argue for a creator God who does indeed play favorites between nations of people. Is it any wonder that the Bible was used by "White" people to justify the slavery of "Black" people. If God plays favorites, then surely God must favor one of these groups over the other. And this leads to extreme religious racism, and cultural bigotry, the likes of which is clearly still alive and well in the world today. The USA currently being a nation of religious bigots that are a shining example of this type of cultural and racists warfare.

We used to think that this was settled on a national level at the end of the Civil War. Boy were we WRONG!

Religious racism and cultural bigotry have unfortunately raised their ugly heads to a national level again in November 2016.

And all we need to do is point to Leviticus 25:44-46 as proof that God condones cultural and/or racial discrimination.

Even the most liberal Jesus Freaks can't ignore this because the NT has Jesus proclaiming that every jot and tittle of the prophets of old must remain as LAW!

So the Bible can be used to support this kind of religious cultural bigotry in the name of God with the full support of Jesus.

[Peds nurse]

Good points, SP. I see these verses as clear demonstration that the Bible is not perfect, and needs to be filtered through our God-given gift of reason and our conciences. And of course, God-given common sense.

Hello EJ!! Hope this finds you well...and staying somewhat cool!

If the word of God has to be filtered by human reason, then I feel those who read it lose valuable teachings from God. I find it is those things that I lack understanding in, is what propells me to dig deeper and find God's meaning. I mean, if we study an algebra book, and we don't understand it, we don't reason that it is wrong because of our lack of understanding.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Tcg]

Hold on there. When you read Scripture you must take Scripture as a whole. Because the Bible is about real times, real events and about customs that are taking place at that time.

With that being said that passage must be logically connected with other portions of Scriptures.

Like for example

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

This makes all men created equal.

Or Exodus 21:16

“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

Which makes it a sin to force anyone into slavery whether he is Jew or Gentile.

Or Exodus 22:21-22

“You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. 22 You shall not mistreat any widow or fatherless child.

I am not quite sure how it would be possible to force someone into slavery if you cannot oppress him.

And one in the New Testament

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Like I was saying the Bible is a real book dealing with real events in people's lives. Slavery has been an institution of men for for thousands of years. In fact the past 150 years have probably been one of the lowest number of slaves that we have had in the world for thousands of years.

And it the Christianity of the West that has put an end to slavery in the west. Men like William Wilberforce, Lincoln and others who like Washington and the Israelite nation that where not perfect men.

But they were men who looked at God's word and saw that the practice of men was different than the law of God. And they dared to dream of a different tomorrow in which all men were created equal.

“They held these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

No they were not perfect men but neither would have we have been perfect men put in the same situation. But would we have been willing to stand up against the status quo and say to men who would kill rather than hear your words that this is not right.

So you can criticize Washington all you want. But what he penned for history was to change the course of history.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 25 by Divine Insight]

Look at my post I wrote below this and I answered this question for you.

[SeaPriestess]

[Replying to post 24 by Divine Insight]

Maybe so, everything you have said but where this conversation has gone has nothing to do with my initial post. lol

[SeaPriestess]

Remember everyone, the idea here is to stop using biblical literalism. Biblical literalism is what got us into this mess and continues to get us in LOTS of messes. Why can't people just live by the 2 greatest commandments, Jesus words? Or at least acknowledge that love is the highest law. That can very clearly be inferred by his statements regarding the 2 greatest commandments. Jus sayin....sigh...