CCM and Other Music

[melikio]

http://www.av1611.org/crock.html#M%20English

It has always amazed me just how HARD LINE some Christians are about anything; but while I was surfing the web today looking for other info, I stumbled across the link above.

Sometimes, I think American Christians are wrapped too narrowly in their focus upon things. And to me, nothing else shows it better, than what some Christians have to say about "MUSIC".

What does anyone think about some of the views on music at the website linked above?

Are we Christians lopsided in their view/s of music and entertainment in general?

-Mel-

[k-nug]

I think that christian magazines and sites have to much to say about "Good or Bad" music..... I listen to what ever music I like..... a lot of people dont understand music the way I do..... They think it's a sin to listen to music like (stair way to heaven)..... (I put a thread in with that topic)

I tried listening to some christian music... but most of it "stinks" ...

Check out "Newsboys".

Newboys, and the other rock/pop CCM acts are still too preachy. I have an open mind about music but I am picky when it comes to lyrics of any nature. That's why I don't listen to most contemporary rock/pop, religious or otherwise. With most CCM pop songs you replace 'baby' with 'jesus' and viola.

Some religious themed bands I still enjoy:
Circle of Dust, Killswitch Engage, a little jars of clay (not a big fan lyrically, but they had great musical skills, at least on the first record.) Megadeth, although not really christian, mustaine (lead singer/guitarist) is a born again christian.

I used to listen to bands like the crucified, mortification, etc. but after I became atheist these bands were too preachy.

[AB]

I think that christian magazines and sites have to much to say about "Good or Bad" music..... I listen to what ever music I like..... a lot of people dont understand music the way I do..... They think it's a sin to listen to music like (stair way to heaven)..... (I put a thread in with that topic)

I tried listening to some christian music... but most of it "stinks" ...

Check out "Newsboys".

Newboys, and the other rock/pop CCM acts are still too preachy. I have an open mind about music but I am picky when it comes to lyrics of any nature. That's why I don't listen to most contemporary rock/pop, religious or otherwise. With most CCM pop songs you replace 'baby' with 'jesus' and viola.

Some religious themed bands I still enjoy:
Circle of Dust, Killswitch Engage, a little jars of clay (not a big fan lyrically, but they had great musical skills, at least on the first record.) Megadeth, although not really christian, mustaine (lead singer/guitarist) is a born again christian.

I used to listen to bands like the crucified, mortification, etc. but after I became atheist these bands were too preachy.

Well, any good Christian band will speak about God. Not sure why you have a problem there. "preachy"? Not sure what music you prefer. I just hope those lyrics you like don't promote how depressed we can be, how violent we can be, and how negative we can be. I would take preachy over that.

Newsboys is good. Right now my favorite song is "Shine". Good stuff.

[k-nug]

Any artist christian or otherwise who limits what they write about to one subject is not an artist I'm interested in. I am an atheist myself, and enjoy listening to songs ranging from God and religion to Satan, war, philosophy, alien abduction, nuclear holocaust, and even folky love songs. I don't like listening to preachy music because I don't liked to be preached at. If I did I would go to church. CCM artists who only sing about God are basically preaching to the choir and are not challenging themselves or their audience. Lets compare two acts.

take any CCM band you like, Newsboys-dc talk, etc. name some of the subjects in their music.

God. Loving God, finding God, finding a girl who loves god, the bible, the rapture, God stuff. One subject.

Let's take one of my favorite bands, Tool. They've got songs about:

Religion- child abuse- conformity- love- drugs- separation- childhood- the collective unconscious, psychology- evolution- L. Ron. Hubbard- censorship- selling out- dreams- (and this is mostly just from one record.)

and the best part about it is I could be completely wrong on a lot of them. Tool does not spoonfeed your art to you. You must interpret it just like you interpret any other piece of art. I used to be a christian and I can tell you that I did not get that same challenge from any Christian artist.

What I'm saying is, if you want safe lyrics that tell you what you already believe/know, then CCM music is for you. If you want to be challenged, thought-provoked, inspired, and have your consciousness raised a little, explore the boundaries of what you experience.

[Biker]

Any artist christian or otherwise who limits what they write about to one subject is not an artist I'm interested in. I am an atheist myself, and enjoy listening to songs ranging from God and religion to Satan, war, philosophy, alien abduction, nuclear holocaust, and even folky love songs. I don't like listening to preachy music because I don't liked to be preached at. If I did I would go to church. CCM artists who only sing about God are basically preaching to the choir and are not challenging themselves or their audience. Lets compare two acts.

take any CCM band you like, Newsboys-dc talk, etc. name some of the subjects in their music.

God. Loving God, finding God, finding a girl who loves god, the bible, the rapture, God stuff. One subject.

Let's take one of my favorite bands, Tool. They've got songs about:

Religion- child abuse- conformity- love- drugs- separation- childhood- the collective unconscious, psychology- evolution- L. Ron. Hubbard- censorship- selling out- dreams- (and this is mostly just from one record.)

and the best part about it is I could be completely wrong on a lot of them. Tool does not spoonfeed your art to you. You must interpret it just like you interpret any other piece of art. I used to be a christian and I can tell you that I did not get that same challenge from any Christian artist.

What I'm saying is, if you want safe lyrics that tell you what you already believe/know, then CCM music is for you. If you want to be challenged, thought-provoked, inspired, and have your consciousness raised a little, explore the boundaries of what you experience.

I would disagree about "all" Christian bands.

lets take one of my favorite bands, Tool. They've got songs about

I have no problem with Tool or other bands, and all the stuff they sing about.
But what are they saying about an answer really? They sing about angst and disgust and rebellion from the corrupt political system etc etc etc but really have no answers. So why are they better? What really do they offer but just another source of entertainment and temporary escape from the anguish and unanswered problems of life. And later your right back where you started. At least Christian bands offer a viable real answer to the source of what Tool is temporarily attempting to sooth.
I don't need my "consciousness raised a little". I want to know truth, and answers, I want to blow through the boundaries, I want to be edified, and encouraged, and have peace, and radically alter the status quo, rightly, justly.

Biker
And they (Christian bands) are doing it with as much if not more talent and inspiration.

[k-nug]

Any artist christian or otherwise who limits what they write about to one subject is not an artist I'm interested in. I am an atheist myself, and enjoy listening to songs ranging from God and religion to Satan, war, philosophy, alien abduction, nuclear holocaust, and even folky love songs. I don't like listening to preachy music because I don't liked to be preached at. If I did I would go to church. CCM artists who only sing about God are basically preaching to the choir and are not challenging themselves or their audience. Lets compare two acts.

take any CCM band you like, Newsboys-dc talk, etc. name some of the subjects in their music.

God. Loving God, finding God, finding a girl who loves god, the bible, the rapture, God stuff. One subject.

Let's take one of my favorite bands, Tool. They've got songs about:

Religion- child abuse- conformity- love- drugs- separation- childhood- the collective unconscious, psychology- evolution- L. Ron. Hubbard- censorship- selling out- dreams- (and this is mostly just from one record.)

and the best part about it is I could be completely wrong on a lot of them. Tool does not spoonfeed your art to you. You must interpret it just like you interpret any other piece of art. I used to be a christian and I can tell you that I did not get that same challenge from any Christian artist.

What I'm saying is, if you want safe lyrics that tell you what you already believe/know, then CCM music is for you. If you want to be challenged, thought-provoked, inspired, and have your consciousness raised a little, explore the boundaries of what you experience.

I would disagree about "all" Christian bands.

lets take one of my favorite bands, Tool. They've got songs about

I have no problem with Tool or other bands, and all the stuff they sing about.
But what are they saying about an answer really? They sing about angst and disgust and rebellion from the corrupt political system etc etc etc but really have no answers. So why are they better? What really do they offer but just another source of entertainment and temporary escape from the anguish and unanswered problems of life. And later your right back where you started. At least Christian bands offer a viable real answer to the source of what Tool is temporarily attempting to sooth.
I don't need my "consciousness raised a little". I want to know truth, and answers, I want to blow through the boundaries, I want to be edified, and encouraged, and have peace, and radically alter the status quo, rightly, justly.

Biker
And they (Christian bands) are doing it with as much if not more talent and inspiration.

fyi I didn't include all christian bands. In fact I listen to a few christian artists as i've said.

As far as music "having an answer", no artist I listen claims to have an 'answer'. That is not the point of music. Music to me looks at life in all it's good and bad, and makes a soundtrack to it It's a window into humanity, not a shining light looking to save it. Tool, I would argue is an overtly positive musical experience. The only real sad songs deal with personal hardship and tragedy. 99% of their music has a positive outlook on life.

[seventil]

Any artist christian or otherwise who limits what they write about to one subject is not an artist I'm interested in. I am an atheist myself, and enjoy listening to songs ranging from God and religion to Satan, war, philosophy, alien abduction, nuclear holocaust, and even folky love songs. I don't like listening to preachy music because I don't liked to be preached at. If I did I would go to church. CCM artists who only sing about God are basically preaching to the choir and are not challenging themselves or their audience. Lets compare two acts.

take any CCM band you like, Newsboys-dc talk, etc. name some of the subjects in their music.

God. Loving God, finding God, finding a girl who loves god, the bible, the rapture, God stuff. One subject.

Let's take one of my favorite bands, Tool. They've got songs about:

Religion- child abuse- conformity- love- drugs- separation- childhood- the collective unconscious, psychology- evolution- L. Ron. Hubbard- censorship- selling out- dreams- (and this is mostly just from one record.)

and the best part about it is I could be completely wrong on a lot of them. Tool does not spoonfeed your art to you. You must interpret it just like you interpret any other piece of art. I used to be a christian and I can tell you that I did not get that same challenge from any Christian artist.

What I'm saying is, if you want safe lyrics that tell you what you already believe/know, then CCM music is for you. If you want to be challenged, thought-provoked, inspired, and have your consciousness raised a little, explore the boundaries of what you experience.

k-nug, I'd have to say I agree with your sentiments exactly.

I'm Christian, but I find myself with a very poor choice of selection due to the linear nature of the music. I do enjoy some; mainly Kutless (I suggest it if you like harder/metal), Switchfoot, Lifehouse, etc.

However, I find myself mainly listening to "secular" music because it's just better and more down to earth. I'd much rather chill out and listen to (or play on my guitar) some Jack Johnson, John Mayer or some Hendrix or Zeppelin.

[MikeH]

I'd say that mainstream Christianity is way too limited in what is considered "good" or "bad" artwork, whether it be music or movies. You can get something from any type of artwork (and hopefully you only listen to music that's art ), and there's no reason to block yourself from what might be a meaningful experience. I can get something positive out of a piece of music, no matter if the writer was Christian or not, just like I could get something out of a painting, even if the artist wasn't a Christian. I wouldn't not look at a painting if the person wasn't of the same belief system as I am, and I don't do that with music either. There is no abstract thinking or anything left to interpret in most Christian bands, save a few. Offhand, Project 86 singer Andrew Schwab wrote some good thought provoking lyrics about consumerism, religious hypocrites, alcoholism, and lots of other subjects. Mainly Christian hardcore and metal bands will have deeper lyrics than, say, Third Day.

For the most part, I tend to like "Christians who are in a band" better than "Christian bands."

[k-nug]

I'd say that mainstream Christianity is way too limited in what is considered "good" or "bad" artwork, whether it be music or movies. You can get something from any type of artwork (and hopefully you only listen to music that's art ), and there's no reason to block yourself from what might be a meaningful experience. I can get something positive out of a piece of music, no matter if the writer was Christian or not, just like I could get something out of a painting, even if the artist wasn't a Christian. I wouldn't not look at a painting if the person wasn't of the same belief system as I am, and I don't do that with music either. There is no abstract thinking or anything left to interpret in most Christian bands, save a few. Offhand, Project 86 singer Andrew Schwab wrote some good thought provoking lyrics about consumerism, religious hypocrites, alcoholism, and lots of other subjects. Mainly Christian hardcore and metal bands will have deeper lyrics than, say, Third Day.

For the most part, I tend to like "Christians who are in a band" better than "Christian bands."

Yea, I use to listen to a band called the Crucified. Hardcore/metal sometimes. As I move further away from Christianity I really don't listen to them anymore, (they have a very Christian message) but they were a good band with thought provoking lryics.

[sledheavy]

What I've always found interesting by this is that the christian labels tend to be rather modest when it comes to talking about god. Either I'd assume because the bands were in fact so preachy (that they speak for themselves) or that it's just well enough assumed that this is a christian genre.

In my high school though we had an organization teach christianity through secular music, and it appealed to more people that way. My friends who were 'just there' were actually more influenced.

I think christian music has become FAR too conventional in it's mainstream aspect. It's the same 'lord I lift your name on high' song bird stuff I've grown accustomed to hating.

I especially give respect to the underground christian bands playing their own stuff at secular events. Because in retrospect they're getting the word out and trying to emote, rather then those coming together to sing the same songs amongst christians while the custom and song have become repetative.

[Biker]

What I've always found interesting by this is that the christian labels tend to be rather modest when it comes to talking about god. Either I'd assume because the bands were in fact so preachy (that they speak for themselves) or that it's just well enough assumed that this is a christian genre.

In my high school though we had an organization teach christianity through secular music, and it appealed to more people that way. My friends who were 'just there' were actually more influenced.

I think christian music has become FAR too conventional in it's mainstream aspect. It's the same 'lord I lift your name on high' song bird stuff I've grown accustomed to hating.

I especially give respect to the underground christian bands playing their own stuff at secular events. Because in retrospect they're getting the word out and trying to emote, rather then those coming together to sing the same songs amongst christians while the custom and song have become repetative.

I think secular music has become far to cookie cutter mainstream and is controlled by a few mega companies. I have lived through the complete rock and roll era. I have seen and heard it from the beginning. Things are so different now than in the beginning. They just played the best music coming out. Most of the time you never heard of the band again. I remember when the number one song of the year on AM radio (before FM) was Michael row the boat ashore, Hallellua! I remember when Elvis was banned in alot of places because he was considered too vulgar. And on the ED Sullivan show they would only show him from the waist up because his moves were to offensive to the masses. I remember when the Beatles were going to appear on Ed Sullivan and they kept talking about it for a month before hand. In one night music changed. Everything was different the next morning. I remember the British invasion, when all of the British bands were dominating the air waves. They all came to America and went to Mississippi and hung out in (colored) joints listening to the black artists. And copied their songs and put them out. There was a period where most of the top hits were white redo's of black songs. The Stones, The Animals etc etc. The black hits were primarily "negro spirituals". Actually Rock and Roll's roots are dominated by Christian music. Most people don't know that but it is the secularization of Christian music. As is Jazz and R+B, all taken or borrowed out of Christian music!
Many of the famous artists originally came directly out of Christian music, especially the blacks. They were singing in church. And got discovered.
I was there and saw and heard the whole thing!
The single biggest factor in secular music's beginnings is, Christianity!
Our parents music was on 78 vinyl. Ours was on 33 1/3 vinyl. But if you just wanted a single, you got it on 45 vinyl. Thats RPM speed for you youngsters.
Radio's and stereo's were tube type then. They produced a much fuller richer sound. The AMP's and PA's were all tube, no digital circuitry.

Biker