Supreme Court upholds "In God We Trust"

[Gone Apostate]

http://pewforum.org/Religion-News/RNS-C ... Trust.aspx

My question, for those that may understand better than I do how this makes sense is this - isn't this pure bunk? Is there some legal technicality that caused this or does the decision really come down to justifications like this quote from the 1970 decision they referenced:

"that said the use of the motto on U.S. coins and bills is ;of a patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise.' "

Patriotic? Ceremonial? Not a religious exercise?

How does any of that survive ANY kind of scrutiny?

[East of Eden]

From Post 19:

From the Northwest Ordinance, passed by the same Congress that passed the First Amendment:

Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Who is surprised that religious folks would pass legislation or such that declares religion "necessary"?

This doesn't mean it doesn't violate the principle of separation. It is but one more example of religious folks violating the very laws they seek to impose on others.

It does not violate separation, as it does not establish a particular church as a Federal state church like the Church of England.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 19:

From the Northwest Ordinance, passed by the same Congress that passed the First Amendment:

Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Who is surprised that religious folks would pass legislation or such that declares religion "necessary"?

This doesn't mean it doesn't violate the principle of separation. It is but one more example of religious folks violating the very laws they seek to impose on others.

It does not violate separation, as it does not establish a particular church as a Federal state church like the Church of England.

Naw, mentioning God has nothing to do with religion.

LOL

[East of Eden]

From Post 19:

From the Northwest Ordinance, passed by the same Congress that passed the First Amendment:

Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Who is surprised that religious folks would pass legislation or such that declares religion "necessary"?

This doesn't mean it doesn't violate the principle of separation. It is but one more example of religious folks violating the very laws they seek to impose on others.

It does not violate separation, as it does not establish a particular church as a Federal state church like the Church of England.

Naw, mentioning God has nothing to do with religion.

LOL

So where does the Constitution say the government can't mention religion?

[nygreenguy]

From Post 19:

From the Northwest Ordinance, passed by the same Congress that passed the First Amendment:

Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Who is surprised that religious folks would pass legislation or such that declares religion "necessary"?

This doesn't mean it doesn't violate the principle of separation. It is but one more example of religious folks violating the very laws they seek to impose on others.

It does not violate separation, as it does not establish a particular church as a Federal state church like the Church of England.

Naw, mentioning God has nothing to do with religion.

LOL

So where does the Constitution say the government can't mention religion?

You can look at the constitution in 2 ways: Just literally what it says or you can look at its intent, or the "spirit" of the law.

[Question Everything]

You can look at the constitution in 2 ways: Just literally what it says or you can look at its intent, or the "spirit" of the law.

This is what Thomas Jefferson (the one who wrote it) had to say about the law:

Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

[JoeyKnothead]

It does not violate separation, as it does not establish a particular church as a Federal state church like the Church of England.

Naw, mentioning God has nothing to do with religion.
LOL

So where does the Constitution say the government can't mention religion?

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Notice, it doesn't say church, it says religion.

[East of Eden]

It does not violate separation, as it does not establish a particular church as a Federal state church like the Church of England.

Naw, mentioning God has nothing to do with religion.
LOL

So where does the Constitution say the government can't mention religion?

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Notice, it doesn't say church, it says religion.

And what religion is being established by my Founder's quote in post 19?

[East of Eden]

From Post 19:

From the Northwest Ordinance, passed by the same Congress that passed the First Amendment:

Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

Who is surprised that religious folks would pass legislation or such that declares religion "necessary"?

This doesn't mean it doesn't violate the principle of separation. It is but one more example of religious folks violating the very laws they seek to impose on others.

It does not violate separation, as it does not establish a particular church as a Federal state church like the Church of England.

Naw, mentioning God has nothing to do with religion.

LOL

So where does the Constitution say the government can't mention religion?

You can look at the constitution in 2 ways: Just literally what it says or you can look at its intent, or the "spirit" of the law.

Here is the intent and spirit according to SCOTUS Justice Joseph Story, appointed to the Court by James Madison, 'The Father of the Constitution'.


§ 1868. Probably at the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation.

[JoeyKnothead]

So where does the Constitution say the government can't mention religion?

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Notice, it doesn't say church, it says religion.

And what religion is being established by my Founder's quote in post 19?

Doesn't matter. "God" is an inherently religious concept.

[East of Eden]

So where does the Constitution say the government can't mention religion?

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Notice, it doesn't say church, it says religion.

And what religion is being established by my Founder's quote in post 19?

Doesn't matter. "God" is an inherently religious concept.

OK, and what religion is being established by saying 'God'?