Tea Party Founder wants Muslims out of Congress

[Darias]

Thu Oct 28, 12:13 pm ET

Tea party founder defends attack on congressman’s Muslim faith
By Rachel Rose Hartman

Judson Phillips, founder of the Tea Party Nation, suggested this weekend that Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) be voted out of Congress for being too liberal and too radical--and because, Phillips said, he's a Muslim who supports terrorists.

And Phillips says he's not about to apologize for that last incendiary charge.

The controversy began when Phillips wrote the following message to supporters (it's unedited and contains several mistakes, including the claim that Ellison is the only Muslim in Congress; Rep. Andre Carson of Indiana is also Muslim):

Ellison is one of the most radical members of congress. He has a ZERO rating from the American Conservative Union. He is the only Muslim member of congress. He supports the Counsel for American Islamic Relations, HAMAS and has helped congress send millions of tax dollars to terrorists in Gaza.


Phillips sent a follow-up email to supporters this week reiterating his belief that Muslims deserve voters' scrutiny but also suggesting that the liberal media misinterpreted the intent of his original comments.

"Should Muslims be denied the right to run for office because of their religion? No," Phillips wrote, according to the letter, posted by the Minnesota Independent. "The Constitution specifies that no religious test can be used to exclude someone from public office. But when someone adheres to an ideology that says kill people who disagree with you, that is something voters should seriously consider when they vote."

He later added: "I am not going to apologize because I'm bothered by a religion that says kill the infidel, especially when I am the infidel. ... I learned everything I needed to know about tolerance on September 11th."

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Questions for Debate:

1. Is Islam a religion?
2. Should Keith Ellison be voted out of office because of his religion?
3. Should the Constitution be amended to stipulate that Islam is not a religion, so that Ellison can be fired without violating the First Amendment?
4. Is Ellison a terrorist because he wanted to be sworn in whilst using Jefferson's Koran?
5. Was Thomas Jefferson a terrorist for owning a Koran?
6. Will you vote for the Tea Party this November?

[Lux]

My claim is that Christianity (what we're talking about) does not call for violence. What God told the OT theocracy of Israel is another matter that has no bearing on Christians today. Islam does call for violence.

My claim was that Christianity has a history of expecting people to abide by their rules. You have taken that to be a defense of Islam and/or an attack on Christianity, when it is neither. I'm pointing out a similarity between the two, and denying the idea that Islam's rules are the only ones that were originally expected to be observed by all men.

But how is the Bible irrelevant to the claim that "Christianity does not call for violence"?

But we don't behead those who reject the Gospel. Where did Jesus call for unbelievers to be killed as Muhammed did?

Not anymore you don't, which I mentioned in my original claim.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think Jew-hate and Christian-hate aren't endemic in the Islamic world. With them it's like an ongoing worldwide 'Kristallnacht' against the 'infidel'.

I never made a claim as to the number of muslims who hate christians and jews, because I simply do not know, nor have I been to any muslim countries. I claimed that presenting one hateful muslim doesn't make all muslims haters.

I will point out that rejection and dislike of muslims is strong in the USA, and the only argument I have ever heard to support that was along the lines of "they started it". I'd be surprised if someone showed me that muslims dislike christians any more than christians dislike muslims.

[East of Eden]

I would largely agree that Christianity on the whole does not call for violence, but there are verses indicating things like "those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king, come and slay them before me"

You need to look at these passages in context. This one probably refers to the generation that rejected Jesus and what happened to them in 70 AD.

or that there will be people cast outside "weaping and gnashing their teeth."

Refers to the final Judgement.

There is also, regardles of how you read the Bible in general or the teachings of Jesus as a whole, a horrendous history of Christian violence, often against fellow Christians, especially those deemed to be heretical.

Those bad deeds of centuries ago where done in spite of the teachings of Jesus, the Jihadists do their crimes because of the word and deed of the 'prophet'.

To me, both the teachings as they exists and the history of how those teachings are applied are relevant. Fortunately, Christians I think have largely gotten better at following the better of the Biblical teachings. I will point out many, though, still want us to follow what I think are the more negative teachings, many from the OT.

Many? Where? I've never personally met any.

On Islam, I can't speak authoritatively, but I think it is quite inapprorpriate for Christians to selectively quote the Koran without following the interpretive practices of those who actually practice the religion. That would be like atheists claiming Christians are all backward and violent because of verses about stoning adulterers or Elisha having bears eat some rude kids etc.

A moot point, as we're not stoning adulterers (that's Islam) or having bears eat kids, and I have never heard a Christian promote those out of context ideas. If Jihadists claim their actions are supported by the word and deed of the 'prophet' who are you as a non-Muslim to tell them their interpretation is wrong?

True enough, but that is today. We used to torture, burn at the stake, and yes, even behead "heretics."

Again, all going against the teachings of Jesus. Note when the disciples asked Jesus to stop another group because they were not one of them, Jesus replied 'Whoever is not against us is for us'.

To the extent some Muslims have not, we do need to help them do so. Empowering moderate Muslims, instead of putting all Muslims in the same basket, seems a reasonable way to do that.

The 'moderates' seem to be a small and shrinking minority, and IMHO opinion are intimidated into silence.

Endemic does not mean universal.

I stand by my use of that word, defined as "Endemic, in a broad sense, can mean "belonging" or "native to", "characteristic of", or "prevalent in" a particular geography, group, field, area, or environment; native to an area or scope." Bold added.

The harrassment and persecution of Christians is going on all over the Muslim world, where they are treated like second class citizens. I recently saw a story from Indonesia (supposedly moderate, at least according to Obama) where a prison inmate became a Christian and was severely beaten and threatened with death by the prison officials. The Koran says if a Muslim discards Islam, kill him. How do you misinterpret that?

And again, how are we going to contribute to changing the situation positively?

I'm not sure we can. Some situations must be coped with. Remember that since 611 AD Islam has been in a violent struggle with non-Muslims with the exception of the recent 300 year hiatus. I think we are returning to the status quo.

I see no positive effect to over-generalizing and labeling all Muslims as radical or anti-Jewish or anti-Christian. Can you?

And I see no benefit to sugarcoating the reality and not facing the fact we face a serious, long-term problem.

[East of Eden]

But how is the Bible irrelevant to the claim that "Christianity does not call for violence"?

OK, where did Jesus or any Chrisitian in the Bible commit, or call for, violence? Anything similar to this from the Koran: "Wage war on non-Muslims and kill them until they submit and the only religion is Islam."?

I never made a claim as to the number of muslims who hate christians and jews, because I simply do not know, nor have I been to any muslim countries. I claimed that presenting one hateful muslim doesn't make all muslims haters.

And not all Germans in 1941-5 disliked America. So?

I will point out that rejection and dislike of muslims is strong in the USA, and the only argument I have ever heard to support that was along the lines of "they started it".

They did, just as the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor.

I'd be surprised if someone showed me that muslims dislike christians any more than christians dislike muslims.

See http://www.aina.org/reports/mpoc.pdf Show me similar acts being done by Christians against Muslims today or retract that statement.

[Guest]

SacredCowBurgers, I honestly have no idea what you're trying to tell me with that video. It's hyperbolic title suggests that because that single muslim speaking seems to hate jews and dislike christians, all muslims do so. That is clearly an extreme generalization, not to mention irrelevant, since no one here is denying that some muslims hate members of other religions - at least I know I'm not.

He is teaching from the Q'uran. It--the Q'uran, is the foundation if Islam. The interesting thing about this video is how charismatic the guy is.

On September 11, 2001 quite a few advocates of Islam boarded planes posing as nice people, and having spent the previous few years in the USA working and training for their plan, while at the same time, being polite and wonderfully interactive with their fellow Americans. So polite that no one even suspected what was really going on. On Sept 11, 2001, after boarding the planes, and the planes were in flight, they suddenly all gave up their pretense and made several planes loaded with the same type of people they just spent several years befriending into parts of a bomb, which in turn took the lives of thousands more of the same type of people they had just spent the last few years befriending. I will NOT forget.


http://zorekrichards.blogspot.com/2010/ ... t-911.html

[Lux]

OK, where did Jesus or any Chrisitian in the Bible commit, or call for, violence? Anything similar to this from the Koran: "Wage war on non-Muslims and kill them until they submit and the only religion is Islam."?

The Bible is filled with stories about god killing or sending someone to kill people for not observing his rules. I can look the passages up if necessary, but I think we both know they're there, and I think I know what your point is: that the violence in the Bible comes mostly from the OT. Now, unless you're going to tell me that the OT is irrelevant to Christianity, we're still taking about Christianity's Holy Book, which can be used - and has been used - to justify the killing of those opposing or perceived to be opposing the rules of god. It is still the god of Christianity the one that is portrayed in the OT, and I don't see many christians moving to have the it removed from christian Bibles, therefore I can only assume they endorse the Old Testament and it's contents.

As I have said from the very beginning, Christianity has a history of applying their rules by use of force, therefore the idea that Islam is different in that sense is not correct. While Christianity has stopped killing those that don't adhere to their rules and Islam has not, the difference lies in the power each religion currently has in the countries where it's practiced, and also more likely than not in that Christianity has evolved over the course of the 2000 years it has been around.

And not all Germans in 1941-5 disliked America. So?

And that proves what?

They did, just as the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor.

Whether "they" (was it the wide muslim community, or the small percentage that are terrorists?) started it or not is a juvenile argument to have.

See http://www.aina.org/reports/mpoc.pdf Show me similar acts being done by Christians against Muslims today or retract that statement.

There is no statement to retract, and I said I'd be surprised if someone showed me that muslims dislike christians more than christians dislike muslims, not that there is more violence in muslim countries. Anyone can see that. Since my own observations tell me there is a lot of dislike coming from both sides (again, not violence - dislike) I won't believe that one side more strongly dislikes the other unless someone proves it to me.

[Lux]

He is teaching from the Q'uran. It--the Q'uran, is the foundation if Islam. The interesting thing about this video is how charismatic the guy is.

On September 11, 2001 quite a few advocates of Islam boarded planes posing as nice people, and having spent the previous few years in the USA working and training for their plan, while at the same time, being polite and wonderfully interactive with their fellow Americans. So polite that no one even suspected what was really going on. On Sept 11, 2001, after boarding the planes, and the planes were in flight, they suddenly all gave up their pretense and made several planes loaded with the same type of people they just spent several years befriending into parts of a bomb, which in turn took the lives of thousands more of the same type of people they had just spent the last few years befriending. I will NOT forget.


http://zorekrichards.blogspot.com/2010/ ... t-911.html

I know he's speaking about the Qu'ran. Speaking from the Bible, I could show you scenarios where it'd be ok to dislike, hate, kill, etc a group of people. The vast majority of christians, fortunately, choose to ignore at least the killing part. In fact, christians ignore a lot of parts of the Bible, especially the ones that have rules and all that. Yet the same christians that don't endorse polygamy or slavery (even though they're in the Bible) seem to think that muslims must inevitably agree with and act upon every single word in the Qu'ran.

[McCulloch]

1. Is Islam a religion?

Of course it it. Or maybe it is several religions, Sunni, Shi'ite, Ismaili, ...

2. Should Keith Ellison be voted out of office because of his religion?

No, of course not. One is reminded of the controversy over having Mormons in Congress.

3. Should the Constitution be amended to stipulate that Islam is not a religion, so that Ellison can be fired without violating the First Amendment?

This sound like a really bad idea.

4. Is Ellison a terrorist because he wanted to be sworn in whilst using Jefferson's Koran?

No. If Ellison is a terrorist, he is one because he has done terrorist acts. Period. If there is any legitimate reason to believe that he is involved in terrorist activity, then he should be investigated. If the allegations have any merit, then he should be removed from office for the duration of the investigation.

5. Was Thomas Jefferson a terrorist for owning a Koran?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

6. Will you vote for the Tea Party this November?

No.
OK, I cannot vote in US elections so my answer is somewhat moot.
However, given the opportunity, I would not vote Tea Party or the Constitution Party.

[Goat]

But we don't behead those who reject the Gospel. Where did Jesus call for unbelievers to be killed as Muhammed did?

Not anymore you don't, which I mentioned in my original claim.

Yet, one interpretation of Luke 19:27 is 'Kill unbelievers'.

But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"

[East of Eden]

He is teaching from the Q'uran. It--the Q'uran, is the foundation if Islam. The interesting thing about this video is how charismatic the guy is.

On September 11, 2001 quite a few advocates of Islam boarded planes posing as nice people, and having spent the previous few years in the USA working and training for their plan, while at the same time, being polite and wonderfully interactive with their fellow Americans. So polite that no one even suspected what was really going on. On Sept 11, 2001, after boarding the planes, and the planes were in flight, they suddenly all gave up their pretense and made several planes loaded with the same type of people they just spent several years befriending into parts of a bomb, which in turn took the lives of thousands more of the same type of people they had just spent the last few years befriending. I will NOT forget.


http://zorekrichards.blogspot.com/2010/ ... t-911.html

I know he's speaking about the Qu'ran. Speaking from the Bible, I could show you scenarios where it'd be ok to dislike, hate, kill, etc a group of people.

Where did Jesus say that?

The vast majority of christians, fortunately, choose to ignore at least the killing part.

That's because it doesn't apply to Christianity, which may be why Christians aren't doing such Muslim-style acts.

In fact, christians ignore a lot of parts of the Bible, especially the ones that have rules and all that. Yet the same christians that don't endorse polygamy or slavery (even though they're in the Bible)

What the Bible describes it doesn't prescribe. All you're doing is showing your ignorance of Christian theology.

[East of Eden]

But we don't behead those who reject the Gospel. Where did Jesus call for unbelievers to be killed as Muhammed did?

Not anymore you don't, which I mentioned in my original claim.

Yet, one interpretation of Luke 19:27 is 'Kill unbelievers'.

But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"

It that's what it means why aren't any Christians doing it today? Actually, it is a prophecy regarding Jerusalem's destruction in AD 70.