Public Education And Its Flaws.

[WinePusher]

It is my opinion, formed by observations of local schools in my neighborhood, national statistics, and test scores, that public schools and education are failing to adequatly educate our children.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6232
http://www.rense.com/general26/two.htm
http://www.examiner.com/a887710~Two_thi ... dards.html

We know how busineeses become more efficent and productive. You have one coffee shop that has rude waiters, dirty cups, and stale coffee; all you have to do is plant another coffee shop next door and the competition and consumer choice will force that bad coffee shop to either reform and better itself, or go out of businees.

So, why is it private schools tend to perform better than the public schools. I would contend that the structure (uniforms, personal contemplation, ability to express and share ones faith) allows students a better enviroment to mature. But the pivotal reason is that these schools get little to no state funds, they rely on tuition by families. And if these families feel the private schools are under performing, they simply have to take their children out and the school will have to reform itself, or close down. Is it not possible to give parents a choice wen they have to choose a school? What is wrong with the voucher program? Is this administration so beholden to the teachers unions that they cannot allows parents to have a say in their childs educational future?

[East of Eden]

Just curious about how strong your support for vouchers is. Is this:

something you are willing to see your tax dollars supporting?

If they aren't preaching violence and are learning the basics, yes.

How about this, from a science book put out by Bob Jones university:


Do you see either of these as an improvement in our education system?

My, you do get offended at a Bible verse. Is it illegal or something to think God is in charge of the universe? Here's a fraud homeschoolers are spared from that's been in science textbooks for 100 years:

http://creation.com/fraud-rediscovered

[perfessor]

The Bible verse doesn't bother me in the least. What bothers me is the absolutely childishly wrong, stupid, and ignorant description of a well-known and well-understood natural phenomenon. Come on, do you really want your kids thinking this way?

[East of Eden]

The Bible verse doesn't bother me in the least. What bothers me is the absolutely childishly wrong, stupid, and ignorant description of a well-known and well-understood natural phenomenon. Come on, do you really want your kids thinking this way?

Shouldn't you be more concerned with the 50% dropout rate of some public high schools? They probably couldn't even read that page and whatever it is you object to.

[micatala]

My, you do get offended at a Bible verse. Is it illegal or something to think God is in charge of the universe? Here's a fraud homeschoolers are spared from that's been in science textbooks for 100 years:

http://creation.com/fraud-rediscovered

I would agree it is not the Bible verse, it is the ridiculous content. As a homeschooler, I have reviewed Bob Jones material and unfortunately a lot of their work is like this. It is not uniformly bad, but the insert some incredible woppers and the science curriculum is particularly problematic.

As far as your reference to the embryo drawings, the fraud here is the notion that Haeckel's drawings are still considered accurate evidence. They haven't been for decades. Jonathan Wells infamously makes an issue of this, completely misrepresenting the reality of the situation, and it looks like this site is along the same lines.

In addition, it is quite true that embryos display commonalities and the closer the evolutionary relationship, the longer those similarities go during development.

The important point is that, even if this was a fraud, it is irrelevant to the current understanding of evolution. In suggesting it does, your reference is lying.



We have some problems in public education. Replacing these with sectarian schools which provide blatantly erroneous content and essentially seek to indoctrinate students into believing falsehoods is not an improvement.


Now, it is certainly true that some schools practice this type of indoctrination AND provide decent education in basic reading, math, and selective parts of science and other subjects.


I don't believe it is good for the country to buy into the notion that we have to pick one or the other.

We should try to improve public schools. I am not ideologically opposed to "vouchers" or other forms of competition to do this, but I think vouchers present some problems as indicated above and to the extent that some people push vouchers with the agenda of trying to destroy public schools, this is not a good thing.


Some states have competition in the form of "open enrollment." Students/parents may opt out of attending the district geography would put them in, as long as they apply and are accepted for attendance at another public school. In our local high school of roughly 800, we typically have influx or outflux from 30 to 80 each through open enrollment. It is usually a slight net outflow.

[East of Eden]

I would agree it is not the Bible verse, it is the ridiculous content. As a homeschooler, I have reviewed Bob Jones material and unfortunately a lot of their work is like this. It is not uniformly bad, but the insert some incredible woppers and the science curriculum is particularly problematic.

As far as your reference to the embryo drawings, the fraud here is the notion that Haeckel's drawings are still considered accurate evidence. They haven't been for decades.

Here's a quote from Stephen Jay Gould from 2000 indicating they were still in textbooks:

"In March 2000 the Harvard University evolutionist and paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould said that he had long been aware of this fraud. But he had preferred to remain silent, as required by the system of the Dajjal.[iii] Once the public had learned that the drawings were fraudulent, Gould stated that it was academic murder for them still to be used and said: "We do, I think, have the right, to be both astonished and ashamed by the century of mindless recycling that has led to the persistence of these drawings in a large number, if not a majority, of modern textbooks."[iv]
Haeckel’s fraud was so blatant and so great that he was accused of fraud by five different professors and found guilty by the Jena University court.[v]
Sir Gavin de Beer, from Great Britain’s Natural History Museum, described this terrible disgrace as follows:
Seldom has an assertion like that of Haeckel’s ‘theory of recapitulation,’ facile, tidy, and plausible, widely accepted without critical examination, done so much harm to science.�[vi]"

The important point is that, even if this was a fraud, it is irrelevant to the current understanding of evolution. In suggesting it does, your reference is lying.

Many parents and children reject and want no part of your understanding of evolution.

We have some problems in public education. Replacing these with sectarian schools which provide blatantly erroneous content and essentially seek to indoctrinate students into believing falsehoods is not an improvement.

Your opinion. Many of us would say this is what the public schools do.

Competition lowers costs and improves the product/service. It's time the schools had some. Naturally like all unions, the teachers unions don't like competition.

[Goat]

The important point is that, even if this was a fraud, it is irrelevant to the current understanding of evolution. In suggesting it does, your reference is lying.
.

I find when you have a group of people that go out of their way to lie (and in the case of misrepresenting what evolutionary theory says, this is very much a purposeful lie), it ruins the credibility of anything they might say.

[East of Eden]

The important point is that, even if this was a fraud, it is irrelevant to the current understanding of evolution. In suggesting it does, your reference is lying.
.

I find when you have a group of people that go out of their way to lie (and in the case of misrepresenting what evolutionary theory says, this is very much a purposeful lie), it ruins the credibility of anything they might say.

Not sure what you're talking about, but how about the lie of running the Haekel drawings in textbooks decades after they were known to be frauds? Does this also ruin the credibility of the evolutionists?

[Abraxas]

The important point is that, even if this was a fraud, it is irrelevant to the current understanding of evolution. In suggesting it does, your reference is lying.
.

I find when you have a group of people that go out of their way to lie (and in the case of misrepresenting what evolutionary theory says, this is very much a purposeful lie), it ruins the credibility of anything they might say.

Not sure what you're talking about, but how about the lie of running the Haekel drawings in textbooks decades after they were known to be frauds? Does this also ruin the credibility of the evolutionists?

No, because it isn't the Biologists, Geneticists, Molecular Biologists, and assorted other Evolutionary Scientists putting them into the textbooks to begin with. It does, however, damage the credibility of that textbook and the company that put together that textbook.

[chris_brown207]

The important point is that, even if this was a fraud, it is irrelevant to the current understanding of evolution. In suggesting it does, your reference is lying.
.

I find when you have a group of people that go out of their way to lie (and in the case of misrepresenting what evolutionary theory says, this is very much a purposeful lie), it ruins the credibility of anything they might say.

Not sure what you're talking about, but how about the lie of running the Haekel drawings in textbooks decades after they were known to be frauds? Does this also ruin the credibility of the evolutionists?

No, because it isn't the Biologists, Geneticists, Molecular Biologists, and assorted other Evolutionary Scientists putting them into the textbooks to begin with. It does, however, damage the credibility of that textbook and the company that put together that textbook.

Yes, and seeing as how the nation's text books are based a large part on the text books printed in Texas (due to Texas being the largest market for text books), we can see how allowing ideology in place of science can have damaging effects on education.

[East of Eden]

The important point is that, even if this was a fraud, it is irrelevant to the current understanding of evolution. In suggesting it does, your reference is lying.
.

I find when you have a group of people that go out of their way to lie (and in the case of misrepresenting what evolutionary theory says, this is very much a purposeful lie), it ruins the credibility of anything they might say.

Not sure what you're talking about, but how about the lie of running the Haekel drawings in textbooks decades after they were known to be frauds? Does this also ruin the credibility of the evolutionists?

No, because it isn't the Biologists, Geneticists, Molecular Biologists, and assorted other Evolutionary Scientists putting them into the textbooks to begin with. It does, however, damage the credibility of that textbook and the company that put together that textbook.

Yes, and seeing as how the nation's text books are based a large part on the text books printed in Texas (due to Texas being the largest market for text books), we can see how allowing ideology in place of science can have damaging effects on education.

How exactly has Texas been damaged by their textbooks? They are currently one of the most prosperous states in the nation.