Is it necessary for the Bible to be inerrant?

[otseng]

Is it necessary for the Bible to be inerrant and still be authoritative? Can the Bible be authoritative while still have errors in it?

Also up for discussion is what is meant by the Bible and inerrancy.

As is the case for all debates in TD&D, it is assumed the Bible is authoritative and is not up for debate.

[polonius]

For a Jehovah's witness there is not error in the Bible, since we believe that that is involved in what is called God's inspired. Jehovah does not need to dictate something to get it correctly expressed for whoever would read it.

If someone does not understand or does not believe in what is written, that counts as a lack of knowledge, information or faith on that person, not as any kind of error in the Scriptures; that's why they are called The Word of God.

QUESTIOB: Matthew writes that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great who died in 4 BC. Luke writes that Jesus was born during the 6 AD Census of Judea conducted by Quirinius.

That would be a ten year difference. Is one scripture in error, was Jesus born twice, or are there two sons of Mary called Jesus?

[Eloi]

[Replying to polonius]

Polonius, I see that you put the same comment everywhere, and I see that a lot of people have answered your question and continue asking you not to repeat all the time something that was already answered. Nevertheless, I will give you some information too:

Date of His Death.
A problem arises with regard to the time of Herod’s death. Some chronologers hold that he died in the year 5 or 4 B.C.E. Their chronology is based to a large extent on Josephus’ history. In dating the time that Herod was appointed king by Rome, Josephus uses a “consular dating,� that is, he locates the event as occurring during the rule of certain Roman consuls. According to this, Herod’s appointment as king would be in 40 B.C.E., but the data of another historian, Appianos, would place the event in 39 B.C.E. By the same method Josephus places Herod’s capture of Jerusalem in 37 B.C.E., but he also says that this occurred 27 years after the capture of the city by Pompey (which was in 63 B.C.E.). (Jewish Antiquities, XIV, 487, 488 [xvi, 4]) His reference to that latter event would make the date of Herod’s taking the city of Jerusalem 36 B.C.E. Now, Josephus says that Herod died 37 years from the time that he was appointed king by the Romans, and 34 years after he took Jerusalem. (Jewish Antiquities, XVII, 190, 191 [viii, 1]) This might indicate that the date of his death was 2 or perhaps 1 B.C.E.

You can find more here https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002000

Hopefully you won't need to repeat the same thing to me again and again. You just have to read the answer again and again ... if you forget it.

[onewithhim]

For a Jehovah's witness there is not error in the Bible, since we believe that that is involved in what is called God's inspired. Jehovah does not need to dictate something to get it correctly expressed for whoever would read it.

If someone does not understand or does not believe in what is written, that counts as a lack of knowledge, information or faith on that person, not as any kind of error in the Scriptures; that's why they are called The Word of God.

QUESTIOB: Matthew writes that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great who died in 4 BC. Luke writes that Jesus was born during the 6 AD Census of Judea conducted by Quirinius.

That would be a ten year difference. Is one scripture in error, was Jesus born twice, or are there two sons of Mary called Jesus?

I can't really understand why some people---spiritually strong people that they are---cling stubbornly to the idea that there are no deviations or mis-statements in the whole Bible. We know that there are. You have shown a couple, and even I mentioned one or two. There can be slight deviations in various places, because this is to be expected when imperfect men, though well-meaning, are charged with carrying out an assignment. This does not mean that the main THEME of the Scriptures is not there. God made sure that His main message got through. He knows, I'm sure, that people who are searching for the truth will sort out the useless extras that found their way into the writings.

[polonius]

For a Jehovah's witness there is not error in the Bible, since we believe that that is involved in what is called God's inspired. Jehovah does not need to dictate something to get it correctly expressed for whoever would read it.

If someone does not understand or does not believe in what is written, that counts as a lack of knowledge, information or faith on that person, not as any kind of error in the Scriptures; that's why they are called The Word of God.

QUESTIOB: Matthew writes that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great who died in 4 BC. Luke writes that Jesus was born during the 6 AD Census of Judea conducted by Quirinius.

That would be a ten year difference. Is one scripture in error, was Jesus born twice, or are there two sons of Mary called Jesus?

I can't really understand why some people---spiritually strong people that they are---cling stubbornly to the idea that there are no deviations or mis-statements in the whole Bible. We know that there are. You have shown a couple, and even I mentioned one or two. There can be slight deviations in various places, because this is to be expected when imperfect men, though well-meaning, are charged with carrying out an assignment. This does not mean that the main THEME of the Scriptures is not there. God made sure that His main message got through. He knows, I'm sure, that people who are searching for the truth will sort out the useless extras that found their way into the writings.

RESPONSE: There being two Jesus' and Jesus being born twice (4BC and 6 AD) is quite a bit more than "slight deviations."

Such major contradictions evidences that God was not the author.

[Eloi]

Every single expression in the Bible contains some information that is needed to complement the correct understanding of the whole sentence, paragraph and other passages of the Scriptures. It is a whole interconected system, where every detail is important. Entire beliefs depend on single expressions, and for certain people the details are the key for their understanding and acceptance of the truth ... For example, in many debates, one word can change the whole discourse and confirmate the truth in an inconfundible way ...

Jesus said:

Matt. 5:18 for truly I say to YOU that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place.

It does not only apply to prophecies but to everything that was originally written.

Paul made whole discourses about a topic based on single words; he used to explain very difficult doctrines only based from a simple word taken from a passage ... There are a lot of examples of that in his letters.

It is true that the general ideas can be understood for simple reasoning ... but that method is not enough for certain persons who need a deeper analysis. Scriptures could not be use to teach the truth if something in there would be an error.

When someone thinks there is an error in any passage of the Bible, must be sure that the error is in his mind, so he/she may need to look for more information about the specific matter (like asking other brothers with more information, more lterature, etc), try to check if the translation is correct, etc. If that person can not find a correct explanation, that may means there is something we still don't know or understand about the event, the text was not written originally like the one is been read, or any other reason that scapes from us at the moment ... but NEVER that it is because God left someone to write an "error" in what we, his loyal srvants, would consider His own word. Let's not fall into that trap.

[elijahpne]

[Replying to post 189 by polonius]

Polonius writes:

QUESTION: Matthew writes that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great who died in 4 BC. Luke writes that Jesus was born during the 6 AD Census of Judea conducted by Quirinius.

That would be a ten year difference. Is one scripture in error, was Jesus born twice, or are there two sons of Mary called Jesus?

HI! I'm new in this thread. I believe you have posted this issue a few times already in this thread - I think three times. I look up all the posts relevant to this question and I can see that no one has responded to it to your liking.

Just wondering mate! How did you calculate the 6 AD figure from the book of Luke?

I have looked at this issue sometime in the not too distant past and my calculation shows that the birth of the Christ, totally based on the Gospel of Luke, should be 2 BC not 6 AD.

The book of Luke chapter 3 says:

Luke 3:1 (KJV) " Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, 2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. 23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age ... "

Because Tiberius started ruling - as any reliable source would show (see for example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius ) - on 18 Sept 14 AD, then his 15th year would be from Sept 18, 28 to Sept 29 AD.

Because, as Luke 3:23 says, Jesus was about 30 years old when he was baptized in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar, if you subtract 30 from 29 AD, one would arrive at 2 BC not 6 AD.

If you have a more accurate computation than the above, I will sure want to know because this is the 1st time I read about Christ's birth as being 6 AD and I'm in the side of those who believe the Bible is inerrant - as far as the original copies are concerned.

Of course translations will not be as accurate but I have not read any translation that would compute otherwise.

Hoping for your reply on this matter.

[Difflugia]

Just wondering mate! How did you calculate the 6 AD figure from the book of Luke?

The census of Judea ordered by governor Quirinius occurred in AD 6.

[polonius]

For a Jehovah's witness there is not error in the Bible, since we believe that that is involved in what is called God's inspired. Jehovah does not need to dictate something to get it correctly expressed for whoever would read it.

If someone does not understand or does not believe in what is written, that counts as a lack of knowledge, information or faith on that person, not as any kind of error in the Scriptures; that's why they are called The Word of God.

QUESTIOB: Matthew writes that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great who died in 4 BC. Luke writes that Jesus was born during the 6 AD Census of Judea conducted by Quirinius.

That would be a ten year difference. Is one scripture in error, was Jesus born twice, or are there two sons of Mary called Jesus?

I can't really understand why some people---spiritually strong people that they are---cling stubbornly to the idea that there are no deviations or mis-statements in the whole Bible. We know that there are. You have shown a couple, and even I mentioned one or two. There can be slight deviations in various places, because this is to be expected when imperfect men, though well-meaning, are charged with carrying out an assignment. This does not mean that the main THEME of the Scriptures is not there. God made sure that His main message got through. He knows, I'm sure, that people who are searching for the truth will sort out the useless extras that found their way into the writings.

RESPONSE: And some possibly decide that because of these "divine errors" it is not realistic to remain Christian????? What do you think?

[polonius]

Timothy 316 posted:

In my study of the Bible I have found that it's message is completely reliable despite errors in it's writing.

RESPONSE: Wow! Sort of reliable errors, eh? That's a new one

[polonius]

For a Jehovah's witness there is not error in the Bible, since we believe that that is involved in what is called God's inspired. Jehovah does not need to dictate something to get it correctly expressed for whoever would read it.

If someone does not understand or does not believe in what is written, that counts as a lack of knowledge, information or faith on that person, not as any kind of error in the Scriptures; that's why they are called The Word of God.

QUESTIOB: Matthew writes that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great who died in 4 BC. Luke writes that Jesus was born during the 6 AD Census of Judea conducted by Quirinius.

That would be a ten year difference. Is one scripture in error, was Jesus born twice, or are there two sons of Mary called Jesus?

I can't really understand why some people---spiritually strong people that they are---cling stubbornly to the idea that there are no deviations or mis-statements in the whole Bible. We know that there are. You have shown a couple, and even I mentioned one or two. There can be slight deviations in various places, because this is to be expected when imperfect men, though well-meaning, are charged with carrying out an assignment. This does not mean that the main THEME of the Scriptures is not there. God made sure that His main message got through. He knows, I'm sure, that people who are searching for the truth will sort out the useless extras that found their way into the writings.

RESPONSE: Then how do you tell the fiction from the truth????