Value of the human life.

[Confused]

The question for this thread is quite simple to ask, though may not be so simple to answer.

Is there anything that can be found in scripture, the teachings of Christ or the teachings that preceded Him, that gives value to human life on earth? Is there anything to indicate that God gives value to human life?

[byofrcs]

Here are two stories in today's BBC News that contrast your malice,

Hope for child cancer treatment which details some research by scientists into blocking a protein that indirectly relates to Neuroblastoma that accounts for around 7% of all childhood cancers, and around one in six cancer deaths in children. Clearly this is wrong as God intended those children to die.

The other story is here in which some preachers are getting others to hassle and kill homosexuals. Obviously gayness is a lifestyle choice and God just doesn't like Gays.

I suppose you are right. Scientists are perverting God's desire by stopping cancers and Preachers are promoting God's desire by egging people into killing homos.

I must thank you for clearing this up. There I was thinking that science was about knowledge of the world around us. I am clearly wrong.

The world and mankind , were not intended to get sick or die at all. With Satan's influence and man himself, with drew from God and the result is what you see today. Before the flood the earths atmosphere was very different than what we see today. More radiation from space, a much more radical climate, etc. Also there are many contaminates that man causes, that can also affect out health. If you want blame someone, blame Satan and Adam.
I have mentioned many times that Christendom is considered by God, as a his enemy, and will punish them accordingly. The bible condemns homosexuality, the same as other sexual practices, but our commission is to preach to all, not to harm anyone, but to teach the high standards of God.
Even at Armageddon it is Gods war, against Satan's organization, on the earth, and as ones that follow Jesus have no part in that. ( there is no violence on our part) Our only commission is to warn people, and help the ones that want it, to change their lives, so that they can be on Gods side.

Any chance then when you are speaking to them next, can you tell them to get the heck off of Earth ?.

There are an estimated 10 Billion stars in a typical Galaxy and around 10 Billion galaxies in the known universe and we know that many stars have planets (say guess 1 in 1) so in that estimated 100 Billion Billion planets God and Satan have to mess with this planet where we evolved ?

That's stupid but it matches the parochial attitudes of theists to the problem of valuing human life. Which is that subconsciously they undermine human life because they aspire to the afterlife.

[dunsapy]

Any chance then when you are speaking to them next, can you tell them to get the heck off of Earth ?.

There are an estimated 10 Billion stars in a typical Galaxy and around 10 Billion galaxies in the known universe and we know that many stars have planets (say guess 1 in 1) so in that estimated 100 Billion Billion planets God and Satan have to mess with this planet where we evolved ?

That's stupid but it matches the parochial attitudes of theists to the problem of valuing human life. Which is that subconsciously they undermine human life because they aspire to the afterlife.

Do you know any other planet that has life?

[byofrcs]

Any chance then when you are speaking to them next, can you tell them to get the heck off of Earth ?.

There are an estimated 10 Billion stars in a typical Galaxy and around 10 Billion galaxies in the known universe and we know that many stars have planets (say guess 1 in 1) so in that estimated 100 Billion Billion planets God and Satan have to mess with this planet where we evolved ?

That's stupid but it matches the parochial attitudes of theists to the problem of valuing human life. Which is that subconsciously they undermine human life because they aspire to the afterlife.

Do you know any other planet that has life?

If God and Satan want a war then they should pick a planet that does not have life. It would seem unlikely that they all have life; I could be wrong and they all have life.

Why not have a battle on Mercury ?. It has poor atmosphere, huge variation in dark/light side temperatures. If there was life on that then there would pretty well be life on every planet which would put a chrome plate on the already huge spanner in the arguments of creationists anyway.

[bernee51]

The world and mankind, were not intended to get sick or die at all.

The world and mankind? On what do you base this theory?

Before the flood the earths atmosphere was very different than what we see today. More radiation from space, a much more radical climate, etc.

And you can support claim this how?

Also there are many contaminates that man causes, that can also affect out health. If you want blame someone, blame Satan and Adam.

Christians are right into the blame game aren’t they?

I have mentioned many times that Christendom is considered by God, as a his enemy, and will punish them accordingly. The bible condemns homosexuality, the same as other sexual practices, but our commission is to preach to all, not to harm anyone, but to teach the high standards of God.

How is intolerance and non-acceptance of another not the equivalent to harm

Our only commission is to warn people, and help the ones that want it, to change their lives, so that they can be on Gods side.

But what if you are wrong? What if you have backed the wrong god?

[dunsapy]

But what if you are wrong? What if you have backed the wrong god?

That is why I try to find out as much as I can and to prove as much as I can.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

There comes a point in your understanding and knowledge that there is no other possibility. There is, absolute truth. But with this truth comes responsibility, and commitment. Most people just don't want it.

Mathew 7:13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it
The example of that is Noah, 8 survived out of proximately 1 million, on the earth at that time.

[bernee51]

But what if you are wrong? What if you have backed the wrong god?

That is why I try to find out as much as I can and to prove as much as I can.

Given your apaprent propensity to see the bible as the only source of truth I find this difficult to believe.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

To quote the bible as evidence of its own truth may be aceptable in this sub-forum - that does not make it any less of a a fallacy.

There comes a point in your understanding and knowledge that there is no other possibility.

Exactly - and I can come to no other conclusion, based on archeology, anthroplogy, history, psychology, philosophy and literature that the god you believe in is an evolved concept.

There remains no need or reason for, nor evidence of, any god.

There is OTOH evidence of the evolution of the god concept and comcomitant belief systems.

As I (and others) have pointed out christianity is a syncretism. To deny this is to deny history.

There is, absolute truth. But with this truth comes responsibility, and commitment. Most people just don't want it.

I dispute this - most people do want it - thus they invent gods, godmen and religion.

And claim theirs is truth.

Mathew 7:13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it
The example of that is Noah, 8 survived out of proximately 1 million, on the earth at that time.

And there is an old Hindu saying: There are many paths to the top of the mountain, the fool is the one running around the bottom shouting that theirs is the only way.

Examples of this can be seen in the division and conflict caused by religions of conversion.

[dunsapy]

Given your apaprent propensity to see the bible as the only source of truth I find this difficult to believe.

Well after much research and checking things out, this is the conclusion. One God one conclusion.That's not to say that other religions have some truth, or some good points. But to God this is not enough. WE have to be like Jesus was. ( of course we are all imperfect, and we can't totally be like Jesus) but the apostles , and ones that followed Christ, show us the example, of what to do.

To quote the bible as evidence of its own truth may be aceptable in this sub-forum - that does not make it any less of a a fallacy.

The real test of the bible and God, is what the bible says about itself. Others might say this is circular thinking, but in the bibles case , this is the test of authenticity.

Exactly - and I can come to no other conclusion, based on archeology, anthroplogy, history, psychology, philosophy and literature that the god you believe in is an evolved concept.

There remains no need or reason for, nor evidence of, any god.

There is OTOH evidence of the evolution of the god concept and comcomitant belief systems.

As I (and others) have pointed out christianity is a syncretism. To deny this is to deny history.

There is ample evidence.
I am doing that on this thread
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 875#233875

And there is an old Hindu saying: There are many paths to the top of the mountain, the fool is the one running around the bottom shouting that theirs is the only way.

Examples of this can be seen in the division and conflict caused by religions of conversion.

1 Cor. 3:18 Let no one be seducing himself: If anyone among YOU thinks he is wise in this system of things, let him become a fool, that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.� 20 And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.� 21 Hence let no one be boasting in men; for all things belong to YOU, 22 whether Paul or A‧pol′los or Ce′phas or the world or life or death or things now here or things to come, all things belong to YOU; 23 in turn YOU belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God.

[byofrcs]

But what if you are wrong? What if you have backed the wrong god?

That is why I try to find out as much as I can and to prove as much as I can.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

There comes a point in your understanding and knowledge that there is no other possibility. There is, absolute truth. But with this truth comes responsibility, and commitment. Most people just don't want it.

Such a person would be ignorant of their ignorance and that person is a dangerous person because in their ignorance they will act without consideration that they could be ignorant of the outcome and so wrong in their decision.

A more sobering mindset is to know that it has been proven with Tarski's undefinability theorem that can be applied to any formal system in general and that "...truth in the standard model of the system cannot be defined within the system."

Notice the power of those words and understand the implication of those words for as others have noted, this proof has a much 'broader philosophical import'.

Anyone who feels that the Bible is complete and consistent is quite simply ignorant of a fundamental truth that was proven 60 years ago. The sobering proof by Kurt Gödel in 1931 is called Gödel's incompleteness theorems and Tarski's undefinability theorem follows on from that.

From that also extends the proof that there are many undecidable problems. An "undecidable problem is a decision problem for which it is impossible to construct a single algorithm that always leads to a correct yes-or-no answer — the problem is not decidable."

The implications of the existence of undecidable problems to all areas of interest, of science, maths, philosophy and to religion are profound.

So forgive us if we consider your claims of "responsibility" and "commitment" and that "most people just don't want it" to be the bravado of the ignorant.

Mathew 7:13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it
The example of that is Noah, 8 survived out of proximately 1 million, on the earth at that time.

Without objective support for Noah we must consider that to be quite simply fiction. This claim of God-sanctioned genocide pales in comparison to the implications of the previous claim of completeness and consistency.

Both have profound implications on valuing human life because religion presents that it can define the value but it does so using a fatally flawed argument.

[dunsapy]

Both have profound implications on valuing human life because religion presents that it can define the value but it does so using a fatally flawed argument.

How does that relate to the real world?

[dunsapy]

Without objective support for Noah we must consider that to be quite simply fiction. This claim of God-sanctioned genocide pales in comparison to the implications of the previous claim of completeness and consistency.

After the Flood, earth’s new population, including all the races and national groups on earth today, descended from Noah through his three sons and their wives, who were survivors of that global Deluge. Thus, after listing 70 offspring of the sons of Noah, the Genesis account says: “From these the nations were spread about in the earth.�—Ge 10:32.




NOAH
JAPHETH

Aryan Branch of Speech:
Indo-European (14 families)

GOMER Cimmerians, N of Black Sea
RIPHATH Paphlagonians ASHKENAZ SE of Black Sea
TOGARMAH Armenians
MAGOG
MADAI Medes, S of Caspian Sea
JAVAN Ionians, Greeks of SE Europe
ELISHAH Near Greece
TARSHISH Pre-Spanish in SW Europe
KITTIM Cyprus
DODANIM (RODANIM) Island of Rhodes
and Aegean Islands
TUBAL Tibareni, in Asia Minor
MESHECH Phrygians of Asia Minor
TIRAS Tyrrhenians, of the Aegean
Islands and Coastlands


HAM Hamitic Branch of
Speech: Afro-Asiatic
(30 families)
CUSH Ethiopians in E Africa and Arabia
SEBA In E Africa
HAVILAH In SW Arabia
SABTAH In S Arabia
RAAMAH In SW Arabia
SHEBA In SW Arabia
DEDAN In Arabia
SABTECA In S Arabia or Ethiopia
MIZRAIM Egyptians
LUDIM In N Africa
ANAMIM In Egypt
LEHABIM Libyans
NAPHTUHIM In N Egypt
PATHRUSIM In Upper Egypt
CASLUHIM
PHILISTINES Coastal Plain of
Palestine
CAPHTORIM Cretans
PUT In N Africa
CANAAN W of Jordan River
SIDON Sidonians (Phoenicians)
HETH Hittites
JEBUSITE Around early Jerusalem
AMORITE In Palestine
GIRGASHITE W of Jordan River
HIVITE Central Palestine
ARKITE W of the Lebanon Mountains
SINITE
ARVADITE Island off Syrian Coast
ZEMARITE N Phoenician Coast
HAMATHITE N of Palestine

SHEM Semitic Branch of
Speech: Asiatic
(26 families)

ELAM SE of Mesopotamia
ASSHUR Assyrians
ARPACHSHAD
SHELAH
EBER In Arabia and Mesopotamia
PELEG
JOKTAN Arabians
ALMODAD
SHELEPH
HAZARMAVETH
JERAH
HADORAM
UZAL
DIKLAH
OBAL
ABIMAEL
SHEBA
OPHIR
HAVILAH
JOBAB
LUD Lydians of Asia Minor
ARAM Aramaeans, Syrians
UZ
HUL Near Armenia
GETHER
MASH Syro-Arabian Desert or
N Mesopotamia