Value of the human life.

[Confused]

The question for this thread is quite simple to ask, though may not be so simple to answer.

Is there anything that can be found in scripture, the teachings of Christ or the teachings that preceded Him, that gives value to human life on earth? Is there anything to indicate that God gives value to human life?

[bernee51]

Why is human DNA and that of our closest relatives in the ape family so similar i.e. within 2 or 3%

But look at the huge gulf between man and ape. And there is no transitional creatures to day that shows, any connection to man.

I note that you have not commented on the similarity between the DNA of man and his fellow apes.

Why do they look like other creatures?

There are millions of creatures, similarities, are part of creation. I am an artist, I have a style, many of my pictures look similar, to one another. That is part of creation.

Hmm - common ancestory.

How do you know we were created?

Because of the intelligence of design. Take the cat. Could you design anything better? Take the movement, everything the cat has, the shape of each vertebra, how it all moves with all the nerves bundled, attached to muscles, muscles attached to bones, with all different materials, tied into the brain. Eyes, ears, nose, all with a purpose, that sense different things in the world. The eyes for night and daylight, nose for smell, ears to hear. Also tied into the brain. Then there is instinct that allows a cat, so he can survive.

Yep - isn't evolution a marvelous thing.

You really should do some research...try reading this rather than passing it over as you have obviously done with other posts debunking your ideas that evolution is a myth.

The earliest ancestors of cats originally evolved about 200 million years ago from reptiles. Prehistoric remains of cats are few and far between but the dental pattern of modern day cats is similar to that found in fossilised creodonts - primitive fish-eating mammals which lived about 50 million years ago, but this genetic line failed to survive and there are no direct descendants today. At the same time another group of animals the miacids also had cat-like cutting teeth - they were small forest-dwelling creatures and these evolved into the carnivores of today - including some cats.

Even though everyone has heard about the "Sabre-toothed Tiger" or Smilodon - which had canine teeth 20cm or longer - this animal is not in fact related to the big cats found on Earth today. The last sabre toothed "cats" died out as recently as 30,000 years ago (based on fossil records in Britain) and possibly only 13,000 years ago (fossil records in California).

Fossils from 12 million years ago are similar to modern small cats. By 3 million years ago there were a wide variety of cats which populated the whole world except the Arctic, Antarctic, Australia and the inhospitable tundra regions. However, Australia does have some indigenous cat-like species e.g. the "marsupial cat".

This is so far removed from just chance, that creation is the only answer.

"The argument from personal incredulity, also known as argument from personal belief or argument from personal conviction, refers to an assertion that because one personally finds a premise unlikely or unbelievable, the premise can be assumed to be false, or alternatively that another preferred but unproven premise is true instead."

Does this sound like you?

No one sees the dirt of the earth turning into a Harley or bread for that matter.

And making idiotic statements does nothing to enhance your credulity.

It takes intelligence to do those kinds of things. But we are talking about millions of creatures with all sorts of different gifts.

Do you have any idea how long 4.5 billion years is.

Evolution is impossible and so is life, with out creation. The thing is that is what our experience show us. Life comes from life, we know no other way that life can happen. Even if science could create life in an experiment, it only shows that it took intelligence to make life( the scienctists) .

Repeating an argument from personal incredulity does not make it any more valid.

And even if it was - on what basis do you assume it was a god that did it and, more specifically, your god?

Right, that really is the question. I feel I have proof of that. That is for another thread, but I think it is time for that.

I look fwd to your answer.

What have you got?

But it is really the bible and Gods plan for mankind that tell you , the bible is correct, and there is a God that does care, and is real.

Why would god have a plan for mankind? Why would god care?

Why does god matter?

So I will start a new thread, on proof that the bible is really Gods word to man.
I am going away for the weekend but may have a little time to comment, but it won't be until Monday that I can really get into this. But I will try to start the thread tomorrow .

Great - I look forward to it.

[dunsapy]

But look at the huge gulf between man and ape. And there is no transitional creatures to day that shows, any connection to man.


I note that you have not commented on the similarity between the DNA of man and his fellow apes.

Yep - isn't evolution a marvelous thing.

You really should do some research...try reading this rather than passing it over as you have obviously done with other posts debunking your ideas that evolution is a myth.

The earliest ancestors of cats originally evolved about 200 million years ago from reptiles. Prehistoric remains of cats are few and far between but the dental pattern of modern day cats is similar to that found in fossilised creodonts - primitive fish-eating mammals which lived about 50 million years ago, but this genetic line failed to survive and there are no direct descendants today. At the same time another group of animals the miacids also had cat-like cutting teeth - they were small forest-dwelling creatures and these evolved into the carnivores of today - including some cats.

Even though everyone has heard about the "Sabre-toothed Tiger" or Smilodon - which had canine teeth 20cm or longer - this animal is not in fact related to the big cats found on Earth today. The last sabre toothed "cats" died out as recently as 30,000 years ago (based on fossil records in Britain) and possibly only 13,000 years ago (fossil records in California).

Fossils from 12 million years ago are similar to modern small cats. By 3 million years ago there were a wide variety of cats which populated the whole world except the Arctic, Antarctic, Australia and the inhospitable tundra regions. However, Australia does have some indigenous cat-like species e.g. the "marsupial cat".

Show me it actually happened,and that it is not just a myth of science.

The argument from personal incredulity, also known as argument from personal belief or argument from personal conviction, refers to an assertion that because one personally finds a premise unlikely or unbelievable, the premise can be assumed to be false, or alternatively that another preferred but unproven premise is true instead."

Does this sound like you?

Or you.

Do you have any idea how long 4.5 billion years is.

I always have to laugh, when science thinks a long time is the answer to a creator. If things did start that long ago, there should be a Harley, sitting in my driveway today. Wait I'll go take a look. ..... Nope no sign of evolution today.

Repeating an argument from personal incredulity does not make it any more valid.

Have you ever heard, Location, Location, Location. Three times for emphases.

Why would god have a plan for mankind? Why would god care?

Why does god matter?
Great - I look forward to it.

Yes that seems to be what the world thinks. So you are a supporter of the way the world of mankind is today and of the earth. People don't seem to care that the earth and space has become a garbage dump. It is obvious that people are only out for themselves, it is going to take God to step in or there will be no life left.

[byofrcs]

.....

Given the majority of the world is "theist" I call what you say "Bullshit!" (This is using this in the sense of Penn and Teller.

[dunsapy]

Given the majority of the world is "theist" I call what you say "Bullshit!" (This is using this in the sense of Penn and Teller.

ahh yes , but is it created or did it just happen?

[bernee51]

But look at the huge gulf between man and ape. And there is no transitional creatures to day that shows, any connection to man.


I note that you have not commented on the similarity between the DNA of man and his fellow apes.

Yep - isn't evolution a marvelous thing.

You really should do some research...try reading this rather than passing it over as you have obviously done with other posts debunking your ideas that evolution is a myth.

The earliest ancestors of cats originally evolved about 200 million years ago from reptiles. Prehistoric remains of cats are few and far between but the dental pattern of modern day cats is similar to that found in fossilised creodonts - primitive fish-eating mammals which lived about 50 million years ago, but this genetic line failed to survive and there are no direct descendants today. At the same time another group of animals the miacids also had cat-like cutting teeth - they were small forest-dwelling creatures and these evolved into the carnivores of today - including some cats.

Even though everyone has heard about the "Sabre-toothed Tiger" or Smilodon - which had canine teeth 20cm or longer - this animal is not in fact related to the big cats found on Earth today. The last sabre toothed "cats" died out as recently as 30,000 years ago (based on fossil records in Britain) and possibly only 13,000 years ago (fossil records in California).

Fossils from 12 million years ago are similar to modern small cats. By 3 million years ago there were a wide variety of cats which populated the whole world except the Arctic, Antarctic, Australia and the inhospitable tundra regions. However, Australia does have some indigenous cat-like species e.g. the "marsupial cat".

Show me it actually happened,and that it is not just a myth of science.

Show it didn't.

Can you show me any evidence in support of your theory that god created?

The argument from personal incredulity, also known as argument from personal belief or argument from personal conviction, refers to an assertion that because one personally finds a premise unlikely or unbelievable, the premise can be assumed to be false, or alternatively that another preferred but unproven premise is true instead."

Does this sound like you?

Or you.

Not at all - I have looked for the evidence in support of your theory and there isn't any. If you could come up with some I would happily consider it. It some evidecen came to light that disproved or changed the theory of evolution I would consider it and change my conclusions if warranted.

I do not do as you do and claim that because I don't believe in X then it must be Y

Do you have any idea how long 4.5 billion years is.

I always have to laugh, when science thinks a long time is the answer to a creator. If things did start that long ago, there should be a Harley, sitting in my driveway today. Wait I'll go take a look. ..... Nope no sign of evolution today.

And making idiotic statements like that does nothing for your credulity.

Yes that seems to be what the world thinks. So you are a supporter of the way the world of mankind is today and of the earth. People don't seem to care that the earth and space has become a garbage dump.

The christian era has been around for 2000 years - the earth has started to become a garbage dump in the christian era.

It is obvious that people are only out for themselves,

Isn't christianity about saving one's soul? how is that not a case of people being 'out for themselves'?

....it is going to take God to step in or there will be no life left.

He's had millennia to do that. He could have stepped in at anytime.

Like during the Inquisition, the crusades (which happened 'in his name'), any of the World Wars, the Holocaust when 'his creation' discovered they had the technology to destroy 'his creation'.

[dunsapy]

The christian era has been around for 2000 years - the earth has started to become a garbage dump in the christian era.

Actually the scientific era.
Before this time , man could build a house, grow and raise what he needed to live. In that 80 years or so , the trees would grow back , the land replenished by natural means, so that when a man died the earth was the same, or even better than before. Now we can leave garbage that takes thousands of years to degrade. There are chemicals in the food chain, polluted rivers from chemicals, radiation, plastics, growth hormones, preservatives, in our food. Now we have space junk. We throw away things at an alarming rate because of being out of date.
The bible says :

Revelation 11:18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.�

[byofrcs]

The christian era has been around for 2000 years - the earth has started to become a garbage dump in the christian era.

Actually the scientific era.
Before this time , man could build a house, grow and raise what he needed to live. In that 80 years or so , the trees would grow back , the land replenished by natural means, so that when a man died the earth was the same, or even better than before. Now we can leave garbage that takes thousands of years to degrade. There are chemicals in the food chain, polluted rivers from chemicals, radiation, plastics, growth hormones, preservatives, in our food. Now we have space junk. We throw away things at an alarming rate because of being out of date.
The bible says :

Revelation 11:18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.�

Well at last, God will get rid of all those Theists !. Once again given the majority of the world is claimed to be theist whereas few claim to be scientists then this is not a problem from science.

The scientific age actually started when the first person observed something and hypothesised for it to happen again. This was at the dawn of humanity and since that time we have been fighting the humans who prophesied something would happen and are dong their hardest to make it happen.

With Revelation 11:18 then we must question what incentive there is to stop ruining the earth if it is a condition of a prophesy that you hold dear. Isn't it in your interests to not prevent the ruin of the Earth if that is the time that the Lord comes ?.

[dunsapy]

With Revelation 11:18 then we must question what incentive there is to stop ruining the earth if it is a condition of a prophesy that you hold dear. Isn't it in your interests to not prevent the ruin of the Earth if that is the time that the Lord comes ?.

The bible says few will be the one to find the truth. So these ones don't account for much , in this world. These, also so are the ones that want leadership that does clean up the mess. So these don't really want to be part of the system of things we have now.
But you did show typical scientific thinking. Which is why the earth is the way it is now. ( though it is not just science, people use this stuff science provides, )
It just shows for anything to get better God has to step in, and what good would that do , if people didn't follow him. That is why there, has to only people that want to do his will, and show that now.

[byofrcs]

With Revelation 11:18 then we must question what incentive there is to stop ruining the earth if it is a condition of a prophesy that you hold dear. Isn't it in your interests to not prevent the ruin of the Earth if that is the time that the Lord comes ?.

The bible says few will be the one to find the truth. So these ones don't account for much , in this world. These, also so are the ones that want leadership that does clean up the mess. So these don't really want to be part of the system of things we have now.
But you did show typical scientific thinking. Which is why the earth is the way it is now. ( though it is not just science, people use this stuff science provides, )

Here are two stories in today's BBC News that contrast your malice,

Hope for child cancer treatment which details some research by scientists into blocking a protein that indirectly relates to Neuroblastoma that accounts for around 7% of all childhood cancers, and around one in six cancer deaths in children. Clearly this is wrong as God intended those children to die.

The other story is here in which some preachers are getting others to hassle and kill homosexuals. Obviously gayness is a lifestyle choice and God just doesn't like Gays.

I suppose you are right. Scientists are perverting God's desire by stopping cancers and Preachers are promoting God's desire by egging people into killing homos.

I must thank you for clearing this up. There I was thinking that science was about knowledge of the world around us. I am clearly wrong.

It just shows for anything to get better God has to step in, and what good would that do , if people didn't follow him. That is why there, has to only people that want to do his will, and show that now.

There is a little problem. Actually it is not that little but it is a problem. You see that so far there has never been any evidence of god. Before we can accept your fictional account of things then how about showing some evidence that supports what you say ?

Given that we have repeatedly asked for evidence but you and others have repeatedly avoided presenting evidence then you are maliciously lying or misrepresenting the situation.

Can we please discuss things which have clear evidence that support them ?

[dunsapy]

Here are two stories in today's BBC News that contrast your malice,

Hope for child cancer treatment which details some research by scientists into blocking a protein that indirectly relates to Neuroblastoma that accounts for around 7% of all childhood cancers, and around one in six cancer deaths in children. Clearly this is wrong as God intended those children to die.

The other story is here in which some preachers are getting others to hassle and kill homosexuals. Obviously gayness is a lifestyle choice and God just doesn't like Gays.

I suppose you are right. Scientists are perverting God's desire by stopping cancers and Preachers are promoting God's desire by egging people into killing homos.

I must thank you for clearing this up. There I was thinking that science was about knowledge of the world around us. I am clearly wrong.

The world and mankind , were not intended to get sick or die at all. With Satan's influence and man himself, with drew from God and the result is what you see today. Before the flood the earths atmosphere was very different than what we see today. More radiation from space, a much more radical climate, etc. Also there are many contaminates that man causes, that can also affect out health. If you want blame someone, blame Satan and Adam.
I have mentioned many times that Christendom is considered by God, as a his enemy, and will punish them accordingly. The bible condemns homosexuality, the same as other sexual practices, but our commission is to preach to all, not to harm anyone, but to teach the high standards of God.
Even at Armageddon it is Gods war, against Satan's organization, on the earth, and as ones that follow Jesus have no part in that. ( there is no violence on our part) Our only commission is to warn people, and help the ones that want it, to change their lives, so that they can be on Gods side.

There is a little problem. Actually it is not that little but it is a problem. You see that so far there has never been any evidence of god. Before we can accept your fictional account of things then how about showing some evidence that supports what you say ?

Given that we have repeatedly asked for evidence but you and others have repeatedly avoided presenting evidence then you are maliciously lying or misrepresenting the situation.

Can we please discuss things which have clear evidence that support them ?

I've started doing that in another thread.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 875#233875

Feel free to ask any questions there.