Comparing K.J.B. with N.W.T.

[placebofactor]

This is a direct challenge, verse by verse of the N.W.T., and the King James Bible. I am not going to give an opinion. You can compare and decide which Bible is true to the word. I will be using an 1824 and 2015 King James Bibles. As for the N.W.T., I have the 1971, 1984, and 2013 editions. Their first copyright came out in 1961. Before 1961 the Witnesses used a K.J.B.

Okay, let’s get started.
We should all agree on this. The original language of the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and a few verses were written in Chaldean. The New Testament was originally penned in Greek.
The foundation source for the K.J.B. is the Textus Receptus or Received Text. The translation of the text of all ancient known Papyrus Fragments, Uncials, Cursives, and Lectionaries, collectively are known as the "Receptus Textus" and the "Masoretic text." Their number, 5,500 copies, plus 86,000 quotations or allusions to the Scriptures by early Church Fathers. There are another 45 document sources for the N.W.T., although they list 94 in the 1984 edition. The N.W.T. two main sources are the "B" Vatican manuscripts 1209, and the A. or, "Aleph Sinaiticus."

Let’s begin with Philippians 2:8-9-10-11.

Verse 8 in K.J.B. ends with “death of the cross.”
Verse 8, N.W.T. ends with, “death on a torture stake.”

Verse 9 in the N.W.T. ends with a comma “,”.
Verse 9 in the K.J.B. ends with a colon: I hope you understand the difference between the two. The N.W.T. is the only Bible that ends verse 9 with a comma.

Also, note as you read these verses, they have added the word (other) and put it in brackets in the 1984 edition, but removed the brackets in the 1971 or 2013 editions, making it part of the verse. Adding the word (other) gives a reader the impression that the name of Jesus is second to the name Jehovah. In their Interlinear translation, their Greek reads, “over every name.”

Also, "(at) the name of Jesus" has been changed to "(in) the name of Jesus.
"Bow a knee" has been changed to "bend," and "confess" has been changed to "acknowledge."

Bend is not a New Testament word. In the O.T. it is used strictly for “bending or stringing a bow.” To bow a knee is to pay homage or worship. Compare with Romans 14:11, As I live, said the LORD, every knee shall bow to me,” Same word in Philippians.

In English, "bend," means to change shape, or change someone's will, to yield or submit. To yield or submit is not to worship. This change of words chips away at the glory of the Lord Jesus.
Compare verses below:

K.J.B.
Philippians 2: 9-10-11, "God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth; (semi colon) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

N.W.T.
Philippians 2:9-10-11, “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every (other) name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, (coma) and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Your comments on the above.

[BrotherBerry]

This is a direct challenge, verse by verse of the N.W.T., and the King James Bible. I am not going to give an opinion. You can compare and decide which Bible is true to the word. I will be using an 1824 and 2015 King James Bibles. As for the N.W.T., I have the 1971, 1984, and 2013 editions. Their first copyright came out in 1961. Before 1961 the Witnesses used a K.J.B.

Okay, let’s get started.
We should all agree on this. The original language of the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and a few verses were written in Chaldean. The New Testament was originally penned in Greek.
The foundation source for the K.J.B. is the Textus Receptus or Received Text. The translation of the text of all ancient known Papyrus Fragments, Uncials, Cursives, and Lectionaries, collectively are known as the "Receptus Textus" and the "Masoretic text." Their number, 5,500 copies, plus 86,000 quotations or allusions to the Scriptures by early Church Fathers. There are another 45 document sources for the N.W.T., although they list 94 in the 1984 edition. The N.W.T. two main sources are the "B" Vatican manuscripts 1209, and the A. or, "Aleph Sinaiticus."

Let’s begin with Philippians 2:8-9-10-11.

Verse 8 in K.J.B. ends with “death of the cross.”
Verse 8, N.W.T. ends with, “death on a torture stake.”

Verse 9 in the N.W.T. ends with a comma “,”.
Verse 9 in the K.J.B. ends with a colon: I hope you understand the difference between the two. The N.W.T. is the only Bible that ends verse 9 with a comma.

Also, note as you read these verses, they have added the word (other) and put it in brackets in the 1984 edition, but removed the brackets in the 1971 or 2013 editions, making it part of the verse. Adding the word (other) gives a reader the impression that the name of Jesus is second to the name Jehovah. In their Interlinear translation, their Greek reads, “over every name.”

Also, "(at) the name of Jesus" has been changed to "(in) the name of Jesus.
"Bow a knee" has been changed to "bend," and "confess" has been changed to "acknowledge."

Bend is not a New Testament word. In the O.T. it is used strictly for “bending or stringing a bow.” To bow a knee is to pay homage or worship. Compare with Romans 14:11, As I live, said the LORD, every knee shall bow to me,” Same word in Philippians.

In English, "bend," means to change shape, or change someone's will, to yield or submit. To yield or submit is not to worship. This change of words chips away at the glory of the Lord Jesus.
Compare verses below:

K.J.B.
Philippians 2: 9-10-11, "God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth; (semi colon) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

N.W.T.
Philippians 2:9-10-11, “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every (other) name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, (coma) and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Your comments on the above.

I used to think KJB was the best, but I changed my mind. We got better translations. Nkjv, Esv, Nrsv. I don't know anything about Nwt, but kjv has problems. Kjv is still good though, but has some crazy words. Murrain, ague, and a whole mess of crazy words

[placebofactor]

Marke: I am not a manuscript expert but I can study what manuscript experts say and I am convinced John Burgon was right in his analyses of manuscripts.

So why did John Burgon convince you? Was it because he said what you wanted to hear?

Marke: I again recommend Burgon's book, The Revision Revised, for its many persuasive arguments against unacceptible manuscripts and for acceptible manuscripts. If looking for at least one quote among hundreds, here is one from the Preface:


I. I pointed out that “the NEW GREEK TEXT,”—which, in
defiance of their instructions,1
the Revisionists of “the Authorized
English Version” had been so ill-advised as to spend ten years in
elaborating,—was a wholly untrustworthy performance: was full
of the gravest errors from beginning to end: had been constructed
throughout on an entirely mistaken Theory. Availing myself of
the published confession of one of the Revisionists,2
I explained
the nature of the calamity which had befallen the Revision. I
traced the mischief home to its true authors,—Drs. Westcott
and Hort; a copy of whose unpublished Text of the N. T. (the
most vicious in existence) had been confidentially, and under
pledges of the strictest secrecy, placed in the hands of every [xii]
member of the revising Body.3
I called attention to the fact that,
unacquainted with the difficult and delicate science of Textual
Criticism, the Revisionists had, in an evil hour, surrendered
themselves to Dr. Hort's guidance: had preferred his counsels to
those of Prebendary Scrivener, (an infinitely more trustworthy
guide): and that the work before the public was the piteous—but
inevitable—result. All this I explained in the October number of
the “Quarterly Review” for 1881.4

This is an opinion piece. LOTS of accusations with no proof.

Marke: This is a debate site. Fee free to offer dissenting opinions or refutations.

There is no proof presented to debate....
Without proof to debate its just pointless. Its just someone saying 'you're wrong' the other then saying, 'no you're wrong'. Completely useless discussion without actual detailed explanation. If you can't provide that, you have lost the debate and lost any chance of pursuing anyone to see your viewpoint.

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

[onewithhim]

Marke: I am not a manuscript expert but I can study what manuscript experts say and I am convinced John Burgon was right in his analyses of manuscripts.

So why did John Burgon convince you? Was it because he said what you wanted to hear?

Marke: I again recommend Burgon's book, The Revision Revised, for its many persuasive arguments against unacceptible manuscripts and for acceptible manuscripts. If looking for at least one quote among hundreds, here is one from the Preface:


I. I pointed out that “the NEW GREEK TEXT,”—which, in
defiance of their instructions,1
the Revisionists of “the Authorized
English Version” had been so ill-advised as to spend ten years in
elaborating,—was a wholly untrustworthy performance: was full
of the gravest errors from beginning to end: had been constructed
throughout on an entirely mistaken Theory. Availing myself of
the published confession of one of the Revisionists,2
I explained
the nature of the calamity which had befallen the Revision. I
traced the mischief home to its true authors,—Drs. Westcott
and Hort; a copy of whose unpublished Text of the N. T. (the
most vicious in existence) had been confidentially, and under
pledges of the strictest secrecy, placed in the hands of every [xii]
member of the revising Body.3
I called attention to the fact that,
unacquainted with the difficult and delicate science of Textual
Criticism, the Revisionists had, in an evil hour, surrendered
themselves to Dr. Hort's guidance: had preferred his counsels to
those of Prebendary Scrivener, (an infinitely more trustworthy
guide): and that the work before the public was the piteous—but
inevitable—result. All this I explained in the October number of
the “Quarterly Review” for 1881.4

This is an opinion piece. LOTS of accusations with no proof.

Marke: This is a debate site. Fee free to offer dissenting opinions or refutations.

There is no proof presented to debate....
Without proof to debate its just pointless. Its just someone saying 'you're wrong' the other then saying, 'no you're wrong'. Completely useless discussion without actual detailed explanation. If you can't provide that, you have lost the debate and lost any chance of pursuing anyone to see your viewpoint.

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

I have also been comparing Scripture with Scripture. Sad that you haven't noticed, and its almost humourous that you don't know of the Bible versions that I quote from. They are versions that I have found on my own, not because the JW organization has made me aware of them. (And please don't make accusations if you have not verified your stances.)

[Capbook]

Marke: I am not a manuscript expert but I can study what manuscript experts say and I am convinced John Burgon was right in his analyses of manuscripts.

So why did John Burgon convince you? Was it because he said what you wanted to hear?

Marke: I again recommend Burgon's book, The Revision Revised, for its many persuasive arguments against unacceptible manuscripts and for acceptible manuscripts. If looking for at least one quote among hundreds, here is one from the Preface:


I. I pointed out that “the NEW GREEK TEXT,”—which, in
defiance of their instructions,1
the Revisionists of “the Authorized
English Version” had been so ill-advised as to spend ten years in
elaborating,—was a wholly untrustworthy performance: was full
of the gravest errors from beginning to end: had been constructed
throughout on an entirely mistaken Theory. Availing myself of
the published confession of one of the Revisionists,2
I explained
the nature of the calamity which had befallen the Revision. I
traced the mischief home to its true authors,—Drs. Westcott
and Hort; a copy of whose unpublished Text of the N. T. (the
most vicious in existence) had been confidentially, and under
pledges of the strictest secrecy, placed in the hands of every [xii]
member of the revising Body.3
I called attention to the fact that,
unacquainted with the difficult and delicate science of Textual
Criticism, the Revisionists had, in an evil hour, surrendered
themselves to Dr. Hort's guidance: had preferred his counsels to
those of Prebendary Scrivener, (an infinitely more trustworthy
guide): and that the work before the public was the piteous—but
inevitable—result. All this I explained in the October number of
the “Quarterly Review” for 1881.4

This is an opinion piece. LOTS of accusations with no proof.

Marke: This is a debate site. Fee free to offer dissenting opinions or refutations.

There is no proof presented to debate....
Without proof to debate its just pointless. Its just someone saying 'you're wrong' the other then saying, 'no you're wrong'. Completely useless discussion without actual detailed explanation. If you can't provide that, you have lost the debate and lost any chance of pursuing anyone to see your viewpoint.

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

I have also been comparing Scripture with Scripture. Sad that you haven't noticed, and its almost humourous that you don't know of the Bible versions that I quote from. They are versions that I have found on my own, not because the JW organization has made me aware of them. (And please don't make accusations if you have not verified your stances.)

As presented NWT also rendered Phil 2:10-11 differently with NASBuv below.

Phil 2:10-11
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

[onewithhim]

So why did John Burgon convince you? Was it because he said what you wanted to hear?

Marke: I again recommend Burgon's book, The Revision Revised, for its many persuasive arguments against unacceptible manuscripts and for acceptible manuscripts. If looking for at least one quote among hundreds, here is one from the Preface:


I. I pointed out that “the NEW GREEK TEXT,”—which, in
defiance of their instructions,1
the Revisionists of “the Authorized
English Version” had been so ill-advised as to spend ten years in
elaborating,—was a wholly untrustworthy performance: was full
of the gravest errors from beginning to end: had been constructed
throughout on an entirely mistaken Theory. Availing myself of
the published confession of one of the Revisionists,2
I explained
the nature of the calamity which had befallen the Revision. I
traced the mischief home to its true authors,—Drs. Westcott
and Hort; a copy of whose unpublished Text of the N. T. (the
most vicious in existence) had been confidentially, and under
pledges of the strictest secrecy, placed in the hands of every [xii]
member of the revising Body.3
I called attention to the fact that,
unacquainted with the difficult and delicate science of Textual
Criticism, the Revisionists had, in an evil hour, surrendered
themselves to Dr. Hort's guidance: had preferred his counsels to
those of Prebendary Scrivener, (an infinitely more trustworthy
guide): and that the work before the public was the piteous—but
inevitable—result. All this I explained in the October number of
the “Quarterly Review” for 1881.4

This is an opinion piece. LOTS of accusations with no proof.

Marke: This is a debate site. Fee free to offer dissenting opinions or refutations.

There is no proof presented to debate....
Without proof to debate its just pointless. Its just someone saying 'you're wrong' the other then saying, 'no you're wrong'. Completely useless discussion without actual detailed explanation. If you can't provide that, you have lost the debate and lost any chance of pursuing anyone to see your viewpoint.

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

I have also been comparing Scripture with Scripture. Sad that you haven't noticed, and its almost humourous that you don't know of the Bible versions that I quote from. They are versions that I have found on my own, not because the JW organization has made me aware of them. (And please don't make accusations if you have not verified your stances.)

As presented NWT also rendered Phil 2:10-11 differently with NASBuv below.

Phil 2:10-11
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

You didn't say just how the NWT is different.

[Capbook]

Marke: I again recommend Burgon's book, The Revision Revised, for its many persuasive arguments against unacceptible manuscripts and for acceptible manuscripts. If looking for at least one quote among hundreds, here is one from the Preface:


I. I pointed out that “the NEW GREEK TEXT,”—which, in
defiance of their instructions,1
the Revisionists of “the Authorized
English Version” had been so ill-advised as to spend ten years in
elaborating,—was a wholly untrustworthy performance: was full
of the gravest errors from beginning to end: had been constructed
throughout on an entirely mistaken Theory. Availing myself of
the published confession of one of the Revisionists,2
I explained
the nature of the calamity which had befallen the Revision. I
traced the mischief home to its true authors,—Drs. Westcott
and Hort; a copy of whose unpublished Text of the N. T. (the
most vicious in existence) had been confidentially, and under
pledges of the strictest secrecy, placed in the hands of every [xii]
member of the revising Body.3
I called attention to the fact that,
unacquainted with the difficult and delicate science of Textual
Criticism, the Revisionists had, in an evil hour, surrendered
themselves to Dr. Hort's guidance: had preferred his counsels to
those of Prebendary Scrivener, (an infinitely more trustworthy
guide): and that the work before the public was the piteous—but
inevitable—result. All this I explained in the October number of
the “Quarterly Review” for 1881.4

This is an opinion piece. LOTS of accusations with no proof.

Marke: This is a debate site. Fee free to offer dissenting opinions or refutations.

There is no proof presented to debate....
Without proof to debate its just pointless. Its just someone saying 'you're wrong' the other then saying, 'no you're wrong'. Completely useless discussion without actual detailed explanation. If you can't provide that, you have lost the debate and lost any chance of pursuing anyone to see your viewpoint.

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

I have also been comparing Scripture with Scripture. Sad that you haven't noticed, and its almost humourous that you don't know of the Bible versions that I quote from. They are versions that I have found on my own, not because the JW organization has made me aware of them. (And please don't make accusations if you have not verified your stances.)

As presented NWT also rendered Phil 2:10-11 differently with NASBuv below.

Phil 2:10-11
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

You didn't say just how the NWT is different.

It is just I don't have a resource that have NWT.
I know that is your preferred translations, I suppose you can see the difference.

[onewithhim]

This is an opinion piece. LOTS of accusations with no proof.

Marke: This is a debate site. Fee free to offer dissenting opinions or refutations.

There is no proof presented to debate....
Without proof to debate its just pointless. Its just someone saying 'you're wrong' the other then saying, 'no you're wrong'. Completely useless discussion without actual detailed explanation. If you can't provide that, you have lost the debate and lost any chance of pursuing anyone to see your viewpoint.

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

I have also been comparing Scripture with Scripture. Sad that you haven't noticed, and its almost humourous that you don't know of the Bible versions that I quote from. They are versions that I have found on my own, not because the JW organization has made me aware of them. (And please don't make accusations if you have not verified your stances.)

As presented NWT also rendered Phil 2:10-11 differently with NASBuv below.

Phil 2:10-11
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

You didn't say just how the NWT is different.

It is just I don't have a resource that have NWT.
I know that is your preferred translations, I suppose you can see the difference.

Well, get yourself a copy of the NWT then. Then you can see for yourself what it says. And if you denigrate it, please read it before you do so.

[Capbook]

Marke: This is a debate site. Fee free to offer dissenting opinions or refutations.

There is no proof presented to debate....
Without proof to debate its just pointless. Its just someone saying 'you're wrong' the other then saying, 'no you're wrong'. Completely useless discussion without actual detailed explanation. If you can't provide that, you have lost the debate and lost any chance of pursuing anyone to see your viewpoint.

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

I have also been comparing Scripture with Scripture. Sad that you haven't noticed, and its almost humourous that you don't know of the Bible versions that I quote from. They are versions that I have found on my own, not because the JW organization has made me aware of them. (And please don't make accusations if you have not verified your stances.)

As presented NWT also rendered Phil 2:10-11 differently with NASBuv below.

Phil 2:10-11
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

You didn't say just how the NWT is different.

It is just I don't have a resource that have NWT.
I know that is your preferred translations, I suppose you can see the difference.

Well, get yourself a copy of the NWT then. Then you can see for yourself what it says. And if you denigrate it, please read it before you do so.

There, I borrowed Placebofactor's resource, I bolded some, and good that "earth" was changed to ground not "human society."
There's really big differences with paraphrase translations compare to word for word that tried to maintain the accuracy of Bible words in original languages.

N.W.T.
Philippians 2:9-10-11, “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every (other) name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, (coma) and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Phil 2:9-11
9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

[onewithhim]

There is no proof presented to debate....
Without proof to debate its just pointless. Its just someone saying 'you're wrong' the other then saying, 'no you're wrong'. Completely useless discussion without actual detailed explanation. If you can't provide that, you have lost the debate and lost any chance of pursuing anyone to see your viewpoint.

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

I have also been comparing Scripture with Scripture. Sad that you haven't noticed, and its almost humourous that you don't know of the Bible versions that I quote from. They are versions that I have found on my own, not because the JW organization has made me aware of them. (And please don't make accusations if you have not verified your stances.)

As presented NWT also rendered Phil 2:10-11 differently with NASBuv below.

Phil 2:10-11
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

You didn't say just how the NWT is different.

It is just I don't have a resource that have NWT.
I know that is your preferred translations, I suppose you can see the difference.

Well, get yourself a copy of the NWT then. Then you can see for yourself what it says. And if you denigrate it, please read it before you do so.

There, I borrowed Placebofactor's resource, I bolded some, and good that "earth" was changed to ground not "human society."
There's really big differences with paraphrase translations compare to word for word that tried to maintain the accuracy of Bible words in original languages.

N.W.T.
Philippians 2:9-10-11, “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every (other) name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, (coma) and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Phil 2:9-11
9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

They mean the same. Tell me why they are not meaning the same, if you think thus. Both end with "to the glory of God the Father." That's what it is all about.

[Capbook]

Marke: It looks like everything posted on this KJV debate site from every side can be challenged as lacking proof.

Not at all. JWs here have presented scriptural proof as to what we have been saying. Others here have not, as in "God the Son" being scriptural. It is not. That statement by you is not proof.

Bull! the only proof Jehovah's Witnesses have is the most corrupt Bible on the market, the N.W.T., the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, your monthly Watchtower monthly, a few obscure Bibles I never heard of, and a slew of translators who have never reveal their names, their education or credentials concerning translating either the Hebrew or Greek. I call them the Watchtower "So and so's, the invisible ones." And they want people to follow these unknowns. You can, smart people won't. Nobody knows who they are, my guess is, they may not even exist. If they do, their Taze Russel and Rutherford.

At least the K.J.B. has a history and proof positive of who the 48 translators were, and the other 10 or 12 who proofed their work, plus 400 years of history, and tens of thousands of theologians who have scrutinized the K.J.B. over the past 400 years. That's my evidence.

My proof is in the threads I have been posting comparing scripture with scripture.

I have also been comparing Scripture with Scripture. Sad that you haven't noticed, and its almost humourous that you don't know of the Bible versions that I quote from. They are versions that I have found on my own, not because the JW organization has made me aware of them. (And please don't make accusations if you have not verified your stances.)

As presented NWT also rendered Phil 2:10-11 differently with NASBuv below.

Phil 2:10-11
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

You didn't say just how the NWT is different.

It is just I don't have a resource that have NWT.
I know that is your preferred translations, I suppose you can see the difference.

Well, get yourself a copy of the NWT then. Then you can see for yourself what it says. And if you denigrate it, please read it before you do so.

There, I borrowed Placebofactor's resource, I bolded some, and good that "earth" was changed to ground not "human society."
There's really big differences with paraphrase translations compare to word for word that tried to maintain the accuracy of Bible words in original languages.

N.W.T.
Philippians 2:9-10-11, “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every (other) name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, (coma) and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Phil 2:9-11
9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(NASB Updated Version)

They mean the same. Tell me why they are not meaning the same, if you think thus. Both end with "to the glory of God the Father." That's what it is all about.

I mean in wordings they are not the same, in NWT I guess we cannot find corresponding original Bible words in Greek.