If you don't trust the Bible, Where do you look for truth?

[2timothy316]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

[2timothy316]

Yes! I have found that most people live their life a certain way and then find a way for God to fit that life style. Tradition is a big motivator and pride in their beliefs. Some say that their god talks to them directly. Yet all those that say that, this god doesn't say the same thing to each one. So using my ability to reason I can only conclude that their god is their own ideas.

You're assuming that what is moral for one should still be moral for another, and that if there is a God, he must be fair and transparent. Why would you make those assumptions?

Lets say a person you love is murdered in Somalia. I use Somalia because there isn't much of a national government so laws very from tribe to tribe. In one tribe depending on the status of your loved one, the judgement could only cost the criminal a sheep or a goat in compensation.

Is that fair? Would that be acceptable to you?
Why would you make the assumption that what is moral can't be moral for everyone? Wouldn't you want that tribe in Somalia to have better morals?

"The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he." Deuteronomy 32:4
And before you say I have to prove the scripture above, remember the guidelines for this forum. "Criticism of sources, authorship, or redaction with the intent to discredit the authority of the canon are more appropriate for the Christianity and Apologetics subforum." viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11496
I also in the forum "Responses to topics with "but first you have to prove that the Bible is true" is not allowed here." viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3168

Personally I would expect God to be the least fair being possible since none of his rules actually apply to him.

Please quote where you read this in the Bible.

[2timothy316]

There are truths out there that we all need to survive and if we only examine and accept what WE think is right we could be deficient in something and we could suffer.

Possibly. But the other side of the coin may be just as true.

Possibly? Just as true?

So are we in a pandemic right now or do you think it's a hoax? Are the numbers we are told of people dying all fake news? Do you think believing something is not true will save you from it happening to you?

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #163]

Possibly? Just as true?

Yes, specifically in the 'we could be deficient in something and we could suffer.' Meaning we may or may not suffer.

So are we in a pandemic right now or do you think it's a hoax?

I'm not sure how that's relevant, but there sure seems to be a pandemic going on right now!

Are the numbers we are told of people dying all fake news?

I never said or eluded to this. But that's an interesting topic that many people disagree on across the planet.
Having many family members in the hospital industry, I do know, for a fact, that some people die not from the virus, but the hospitals do report it as such. I know of two people personally that had this happen; one was from a car accident and the other was super old (and, because the COD was reported as the virus, this old man's wife is being denied his life insurance as a pandemic is not covered, which is shady in my opinion but that's another story). Neither died of the virus but the hospital reported it as such to get specific funding. Does that represent the whole? I hope not nor do I believe it to represents the whole. But that does show that you can't believe everything you're told.

Do you think believing something is not true will save you from it happening to you?

I think believing in something that may or may not be true can help or hurt you, depending on what it is.
Speaking of the pandemic, I saw a story in the last couple weeks of a minister/preacher you said, basically, he's speaking the word of God and blowing out the virus. He died of the virus. Seems to me he was hurt by something he believed to be true. Is that story true? I suspect it is, mostly, but I have no way of knowing for sure.
Therefore, you can believe something being true (or not) and can be hurt by it (or not).

[2timothy316]

Do you think believing something is not true will save you from it happening to you?

I think believing in something that may or may not be true can help or hurt you, depending on what it is.

"Depending on what it is."
So I gave an example of people being hurt due that their 'truth' being that the pandemic is a hoax. Is that one of those, 'depending on what it is' moments where it is harmful?
In post 159 in answer to the question, "is what we ourselves think is right for us actually right?" you answered,

The only one capable of answering that, with the most assuredly, is the individual in my opinion.

Is thinking that the pandemic is a hoax right for a person to believe even if it cost them their life? For the record, in your opinion is this ok?

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #165]

"Depending on what it is."

Correct. If you believe in the Loch Ness Monster, that's not likely to hurt you. If you believe you can drive at 120MPH around the exit ramp that's posted 35MPH because 'God will protect me' that can be hurtful.

I gave an example of people being hurt due that their 'truth' being that the pandemic is a hoax. Is that one of those, 'depending on what it is' moments where it is harmful?

It could be, depending on the person and their belief. It should be noted that some believe it's a hoax and don't get sick. Does that mean they were right in not believing it to be real? It seems if one can say 'believing it to be a hoax will hurt you' it can also be said 'believing it's a hoax won't hurt you' simply because not one answer is correct for everyone on the planet. It's not possible.
It also depends on other things, like their honesty in saying what they believe, for example.
Brian can say "I believe it's a hoax" but internally, he knows it's not a hoax. We can only 'go on' what he says and his actions, both of which can be interpreted incorrectly by others.
Basically, there are so many variable that a blanket statement of 'If you do/don't believe in this it will hurt you' isn't logically correct, if that's, indeed, what someone is saying.

Is thinking that the pandemic is a hoax right for a person to believe even if it cost them their life? For the record are you ok with this?

Like what you believe is irrelevant to me, and vice versa, I suspect what I believe is irrelevant to them.
Fact is, if some person on the other side of the city simply wants to believe it's a hoax (or not) and has no interaction with me or my family, I couldn't care. I don't live for them. I don't answer to/for them. They don't live, or answer to/for me either. People are free to believe whatever they want even if it does hurt them. When the actions based on their belief starts impacting others, that's where issues arise.

[Purple Knight]

Lets say a person you love is murdered in Somalia. I use Somalia because there isn't much of a national government so laws very from tribe to tribe. In one tribe depending on the status of your loved one, the judgement could only cost the criminal a sheep or a goat in compensation.

Is that fair? Would that be acceptable to you?

I wouldn't like to live in a place where murder is de facto legal, and this is exactly why.

Why would you make the assumption that what is moral can't be moral for everyone?

Firstly, it's not an assumption; the idea that people are morally equal is an assumption (though people generally make this assumption and I would concede that it's a fair one).

However, in all moral stories, in all moral cultures, some people or at very least some entity has moral privilege. For example, God is good by definition so if it murders or genocides, then it is still good and those acts, coming from it, are good. However, those acts coming from me are not good.

Wouldn't you want that tribe in Somalia to have better morals?

No. I don't assume my morals are better. If that's how they want to live, I wish them well. I only wish that if they want the right to murder others and live in a completely free society, they don't come to my society and do so, and that if some of them want the right not to be murdered, and are willing not to murder others as payment for that, that those ones do come to my society. (Oh, and that libertarians would all move to Somalia where they can live in anarchy and stop complaining about how evil government is.)

"The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he." Deuteronomy 32:4
And before you say I have to prove the scripture above, remember the guidelines for this forum.

You don't have to prove that. In fact I concede that it's true. If the Bible is true then it's true, and if the Bible is fiction then it's still canon. That was what was written, so that's what it is. Therefore the passage accurately describes God whether it is a fictional entity or not. This is exactly why I say some entities may have special moral privilege to do actions which, for other entities, would be considered evil.