Is Socialism Moral? Especially, Christian?

[Purple Knight]

The question for debate is whether a socialist system is closer to how Jesus intended people to behave than a capitalist one.

The sub-question is for those who think socialism is moral whether that was inspired by religion or not: If a country's laws were very close to what Jesus (or your morality) taught, but as a consequence, the country was a very bad place to live, would you move there? For example, a country that has a lot of assault because it is a law that you turn the other cheek and don't hit back, and you'll be punished for retaliating. Or a country where ministers roam around, imbued with legal authority, and they decide when you must sell all your possessions and give to the poor, including your house and car.

It's very easy to have high morals when the consequences are less present because the system you happen to live in works to protect you from them. Is there something extra moral about choosing to live where the system doesn't do that? Or is it just foolish? Because perhaps the goal is to have and hold the highest morals possible and if you've been given an ivory tower with which to protect them, that's simply a logical choice to achieve maximum morality.

[marke]

[Replying to marke in post #138]

God's grace was upon them, not for choosing socialism but for seeking and serving God.

What's wrong with serving God through socialism?

Marke: If socialism was not so opposed to free market freedom and so traditionally opposed to Biblical Christianity then more Christians may not be so opposed to it.

There is no evidence that early experiments with socilism, communism, or Marxism ever succeeded.

Is that capitalism's excuse for not being designed to eliminate poverty?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to marke in post #141]

If socialism was not so opposed to free market freedom and so traditionally opposed to Biblical Christianity then more Christians may not be so opposed to it.

"Christian Socialism, movement of the mid-19th century that attempted to apply the social principles of Christianity to modern industrial life. The term was generally associated with the demands of Christian activists for a social program of political and economic action on behalf of all individuals, impoverished or wealthy, and the term was used in contradistinction to laissez-faire individualism. Later, Christian Socialism came to be applied in a general sense to any movement that attempted to combine the fundamental aims of socialism with the religious and ethical convictions of Christianity."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Christian-Socialism

[marke]

[Replying to marke in post #141]

If socialism was not so opposed to free market freedom and so traditionally opposed to Biblical Christianity then more Christians may not be so opposed to it.

"Christian Socialism, movement of the mid-19th century that attempted to apply the social principles of Christianity to modern industrial life. The term was generally associated with the demands of Christian activists for a social program of political and economic action on behalf of all individuals, impoverished or wealthy, and the term was used in contradistinction to laissez-faire individualism. Later, Christian Socialism came to be applied in a general sense to any movement that attempted to combine the fundamental aims of socialism with the religious and ethical convictions of Christianity."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Christian-Socialism

Marke: I oppose liberal Christian socialism and Marxist stakeholder capitalism.

[oldbadger]

Marke: I oppose liberal Christian socialism and Marxist stakeholder capitalism.

That reminds me a bit like someone pronouncing that Christian love, understanding, giving and caring is evil!

[marke]

Marke: I oppose liberal Christian socialism and Marxist stakeholder capitalism.

That reminds me a bit like someone pronouncing that Christian love, understanding, giving and caring is evil!

Marke: It is not unloving or evil to oppose bad policies and politics.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to marke in post #143]

I oppose liberal Christian socialism and Marxist stakeholder capitalism.

Why do you oppose "liberal" Christian socialism?

As for "Marxist" stakeholder capitalism, why shouldn't business be a stakeholder-oriented endeavor? Look at driving----you're not supposed to drive focused exclusively on getting where you're going; you're supposed to get where you're going within the framework of keeping everyone around you safe. Why should economics be any different? How can someone be a Christian while advocating the separation of commerce from the Golden Rule?

[marke]

[Replying to marke in post #143]

I oppose liberal Christian socialism and Marxist stakeholder capitalism.

Why do you oppose "liberal" Christian socialism?

As for "Marxist" stakeholder capitalism, why shouldn't business be a stakeholder-oriented endeavor? Look at driving----you're not supposed to drive focused exclusively on getting where you're going; you're supposed to get where you're going within the framework of keeping everyone around you safe. Why should economics be any different? How can someone be a Christian while advocating the separation of commerce from the Golden Rule?

As a Christian I understand freedom and God-given rights. Stakeholder capitalism is a brain child of the ungodly world order designed by atheists who do not understand God, Christianity, rights, or freedoms. Socialism that forcibly robs the worthy to distribute to the unworthy is also an evil construct.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to marke in post #147]

Stakeholder capitalism is a brain child of the ungodly world order designed by atheists who do not understand God, Christianity, rights, or freedoms.

How does that empty rhetoric make a convincing argument against the humane practice of looking out for those affected by what we do?

Socialism that forcibly robs the worthy to distribute to the unworthy

That isn't what socialism does; it's what capitalism does by taking the wealth created by workers through their labor and distributing it upward to workplace owners who produce nothing.

[marke]

[Replying to marke in post #147]

Stakeholder capitalism is a brain child of the ungodly world order designed by atheists who do not understand God, Christianity, rights, or freedoms.

How does that empty rhetoric make a convincing argument against the humane practice of looking out for those affected by what we do?

Marke: I don't want God-rejecters determining what is best for me or the US.

Socialism that forcibly robs the worthy to distribute to the unworthy

That isn't what socialism does; it's what capitalism does by taking the wealth created by workers through their labor and distributing it upward to workplace owners who produce nothing.

Marke: Good business provides workers with jobs and paychecks in a free market system that encourages those who can to risk their wealth to provide those jobs and benefits in exchange for a profit.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to marke in post #149]

Good business provides workers with jobs and paychecks in a free market system that encourages those who can to risk their wealth to provide those jobs and benefits in exchange for a profit.

.....again illustrating the difference between free market theory and frequent free market practice.

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/53655